AngryFrenchGuy

Allophone is a French Word

with 251 comments

Allophones in Canada

 
 

There are no allophones in Canada.

Just for fun (because I’m the type of guy who entertains himself by doing amateur statistics on a Sunday afternoon while the rest of the World is watching some hockey game), I searched « allophone » + « every Canadian province » on the Canadian Newstand search engine.

In all the Canadian newspapers electronically archived, 1551 newspapers articles contained both the words Québec and allophone. If you remove the stories that also mention Québec, only 57 stories have ever been published in a major Canadian newspaper in which the reporter used both the words Canada and allophone. The words Ontario and allophone have shared a daily’s real estate only a precious five times.

And even though 42% of immigrant workers in British-Colombia say they regularly use a non-official language at work, no writer has ever used those two words in the same story. Ever.

There are no allophones in Canada. They all live in Québec.

Strictly speaking, an allophone is someone who’s native language is not the same as the one of the dominant linguistic community in which he lives, which in Canada is understood to mean someone who’s native tongue is neither French nor English.   By that definition, Ontario, British-Columbia, Alberta and even Manitoba have way more allophones than Québec.

In the context of Québec’s charged identity politics, however, the word allophone has become shorthand for visible minority, immigrant, ethnic and « white people with italian last names trying to claim some sort of ethnic heritage to advance their careers and/or political agenda », i.e. the Parti Québécois’ Pierre Curzi, the Liberal’s Liza Hébert/Frulla-Hébert/Frulla and the CDPQ’s Micheal Sabia.

That’s not to say allophones are a demographic fiction. They exist, at least in Québec. There are 900 000 allophones in the province, and with over 21 000 new recruits every year through immigration, they could soon be twice as numerous as Québec Anglos.

That’s huge. If the arrival of the French settlers four hundred years ago was the first dramatic demographic shift on the banks of the St.Lawrence river, and the arrival of the British Loyalists the second, we are now smack in the middle of the third.

Political pollsters usually treat Anglos and Allos as a single bloc of voters.  In the Montreal Gazette « anglophones and allophones » has become a single word as their writers try to convince us they have many black friends.

In real life, though, the Allophones are a very different tribe than the Anglos and Francos.

Three quarters of Québec Anglos only listen to music in English. Allos, like Francos, say they listen to music in French or English indiscriminately. Eighty-five percent of Québec’ Anglos watch all their TV in English. Half of Allos watch French television, a third of them exclusively. A small majority of allophones choose to read French-language newspapers (a huge majority if you count the free dailies distributed in the Montreal metro). One third of Québec Allos watch French language movies and the majority of shows they see are in French.

And whereas Anglophones who choose to study in another language than English at the post-secondary level are as rare as palm trees in Rosemont, half of Allophones (60% of those who went to French high school) choose to persue a higher education in French .

And those numbers are from Le grand Montréal s’anglicise, a report compiled by the Parti Québécois for the express purpose of scaring us into voting for secession ASAP.

The fact is allophones are just as endangered as francophones.

According the latest census data, there are 2 400 000 Allos in Canada who have gone Anglo. Combined with the 400 000 Francophones converts to English and the 500 000 new native English speakers in the country, this has led to one of the fastest periods of growth for the English language in Canadian history according to University of Ottawa demographer Charles Castonguay.

Even in Montreal, the allophone’s last refuge, economics pressure the majority of allophones who assimilate into one or the other of the great linguistic confederacies choose the English-language. The number of people who reported using English as their home language increased by 5,5% between the last two census periods. Again, unprecedented in the history of Canadian census data, according to prof Castonguay.

Montreal is not getting more diverse, it’s just becoming more English.   Just like Canada, where there are no more allophones.

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Written by angryfrenchguy

May 3, 2010 at 10:07 am

251 Responses

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  1. @bruce–Quelle grosse femme, Kate Smith? J’espere que vous connaissez l’histore de l’hymne “God Bless America…”

    In general on North American French, and my apologies for writing this in North American English: I have encountered a sentiment among European-bred French speakers that some NA French forms are “wrong” or “incorrect.” As French is an acquired language for me, however, it’s not as if I can reproach someone if I am “corrected” for saying “peinturer” instead of “peindre,” for instance. I do think it would help matters for us English speakers in North America if we were taught colloquial NA French speechways without judgments on whether one or another of them is “incorrect;” this was not done at all when I was learning French, although I understand that things have changed somewhat since then.

    littlerob

    May 17, 2010 at 9:03 pm

  2. Wow ABP, comparing French in Calgary to English in Montreal. The results are soooooo surprising.

    What about English in Chicoutimi vs. French in Moncton while you are it?

    Seriously, I think French in Ottawa vs. English in Montreal would be the most apt pairing for comparison purposes.

    Acajack

    May 17, 2010 at 10:07 pm

  3. “Wow ABP, comparing French in Calgary to English in Montreal. The results are soooooo surprising”

    Please don’t side track the point of the argument, which was, the french in Quebec (and outside of Quebec as well) are more exposed to english than the english in other communities outside of Quebec are exposed to french. This, being, maybe not all, but one of the major reasons that those in Quebec learn the other language due to the much larger exposure to the other language. I think the media outlets I cited are clear examples of the difference in exposure levels. Likely why the PQ are wishing to gain control of telecom and broadcast so they can “socially engineer” and balance the sector.

    “I have already proven to you that *most* francophones are not exposed to both languages from an early age.

    With the media as it is in Montreal? Again, a hell of a lot more than in Calgary, Edmonton or for that matter any other city in Canada.

    “I will not dispute that English is a lot more useful than French in the Canadian and North American contexts”

    Your words, not mine. The very reason why those in other provinces outside of Quebec and perhaps NB have little interest. It would not make any real difference to their day to day lives other than should they wish to work in the civil service of Canada. Of course if you take my province as an example, only 4% of the federal positions here are designated bilingual..so not such a big deal.

    ABP

    May 17, 2010 at 11:49 pm

  4. “How about we are not the single, one-mind, ethnically pure tribe that your media tries so hard to portray us as, BUT a collection of individuals of varied opinions, origins and perspectives who happen to live in Québec and participate in French language culture?”

    Bruce,

    Keep mind that that was his way of deflecting from the issue. He turned this into an issue of plurality of opinion within the movement, but the issue is the contradictions made by the same individual. It is a very important issue because the separatists contrived the debate in a way as to make it very difficult or even impossible to challenge any of their thinking. Because, for example, they are a minority that has the right to protect their weak language (hence the language laws), but if you call them out on it (why should I even bother to learn your language if it is in such dire condition that you need laws to save it?), they effortlessly flip flop into the “majority” argument (we are the majority, every normal country enforces the laws of the majority, don’t you want to get with the program and join the majority?). But then if you agree with them on the majority status and attack the necessity of the language laws (why do you need language laws if you are a majority?), they will immediately revert back to the minority argument and talk about the perils to the sole existence of their language and culture.

    So we’re not talking about several people disagreeing with each other. We’re talking about a single person serving out contradictory arguments. They all do it. Listen to Landry, Curzi, Marois, Beaudoin, pushing for 101’s extension to Cegeps. You’ll see what I’m talking about.

    And not only does it make it difficult to argue against the arguments they use to justify their political existence, it also ensures that this argument will go on forever. And that’s a very important thing for them, because if things were to get resolved, this whole (today unnecessary) movement would be thrown on the ash heap of history and we would all just move on. So it is in their interest to keep things irresolvable. It fits their political agenda.

    Expect no solutions anytime soon.

    noyb

    May 18, 2010 at 10:26 am

  5. littlerob,

    I have forgotten exactly your connection to Québec, and why you more or less mastered French rather than or in addition to Spanish. I am aware of your Austrian patrimoine and your great depth in 20th century European history (the posts in the blog to follow this one which some of us don’t want to add further posts!).

    I would love to hear your take on the ‘Cultural’ wars currently ravaging your country and how all that plays out locally for example in Philly or Pittsburgh or Scranton or Allentown or Harrisburg or Delaware Gap or where ever it is that you live.

    Also your take as to what is going to come when the coalition of the privileged and the “depraved” get into full swing with the anti-Obama back lash.

    Talk about catch 22 in the land of stars and stripes! Meanwhile up here we have a control freak near dictator calling the shots.

    As to your comment about French in Québec as a “sociolect”, i.e. a local version of French … one observes linguistic variance, one does not judge.

    But… those who aspire to become profs. etc. learn the “standard” international version nonetheless. I have heard various ROC types who had a lot of immersion French during their growing up years ‘dump’ on the “Québécois”, niveau familier de la rue, which only shows they don’t know too much about Québec historically etc. but I don’t dump on it, as it is living “culture” which is not unworthy, but as you say, you or I were not specifically taught this genre of French, because in the context of a world official language, that is to say standard international French, the niveau familier de QC does not have a high profile.

    We talk about the language of Shakespeare, and the language of Molière and Racine, but we need foot notes to help with the usage of those times — the vernacular of our days has changed somewhat.

    In any case we in ROC should be taught a lot of the Québec variants, which have their own delicious colour and charm. But first we do have to learn the standard language, more or less ‘stuffily’ defined by the Academy française in Paris, and also most Québécois do want their schools to adhere to those standards. And this is because it IS a standard that unifies and facilitates communication around the francophonie, (AND, it is a precise and very clear language with a particular genius.) But, bring on the variants! Nonetheless I doubt that a majority of Québécois want to throw out international French and substitute a joual language as the official tongue, à la Bergeron who compiled a dictionary of the “Québécois language”, (not the official one of the QC governement, available on-line.)

    What really is the difference between a “language” and a “sociolect” or “dialect” I think the latter are vernacular versions of an “official” world language.

    If the Québécois decided however to officialise their local familiar version, and teach that in Québec schools, they would be limiting its use to only 6.5 or so million speakers, instead of the 130 or so million in the francophonie.

    Probably not the best course to go forward with.

    Michel Trembly uses the vernacular language in the mouths of his characters in the plays and books set in the Plateau, and the ‘Main’ where he grew up. But he writes in the very finest of current international standard French.

    Anyhow, my fingers crossed for the ‘Habs when the Fat Lady starts to sing! I’m Canadian and you are American after all!

    bruce

    May 18, 2010 at 11:17 am

  6. Noyb,

    Your comments duly noted! Thanks for the testimony. You live near the epicentre after all, which I do not.

    (But I imagine the epicentre is possibly 35 or 40 blocks or so to the east of your actual domicile.) I presume you speak French when you are meandering in those neighbourhoods.

    Cheers,

    bruce

    May 18, 2010 at 11:26 am

  7. ABP,

    Some very good posts!

    We in Toronto do have a French language weekly L’Express

    http://www.lexpress.to

    Cheers

    bruce

    May 18, 2010 at 11:30 am

  8. “Noyb,
    Your comments duly noted! Thanks for the testimony. You live near the epicentre after all, which I do not.
    (But I imagine the epicentre is possibly 35 or 40 blocks or so to the east of your actual domicile.) I presume you speak French when you are meandering in those neighbourhoods.
    Cheers,”

    Noyb probably lives in Arizona, Bruce. And judging from the mistakes found in the rare snippets of French he has typed here, his French is probably subpar when compared to that of an 8-year-old taking French immersion in Brampton.

    Acajack

    May 18, 2010 at 11:57 am

  9. Acajack,

    I’m sorry you brush shoulders with so many indifferent or disdaining English speakers.

    What was their alcohol level at the time, or were they just threatened by the presence of a superior intellect!

    Too bad about the bitter guy in Ottawa who can’t get a good position in the Federal civil service because he never bothered to learn French. I don’t feel any empathy for him however.

    The good news is the Federal government is bilingual. A tiny piece of bad news … they are economising … for example recently at Fort Erie Ontario (across from Buffalo), I was re-entering Canada.. always a warm feeling for me, and said ‘Bonjour’ comme d’habitude au douanier, et il m’a répondu (cheerily, in English): Ah, je ne peux pas parler en français mais je peux vous en obtenir un qui peut le faire.”

    Et moi, un peu surpris, Ok, merci, il ne faut pas lui déranger. Avez-vous des questions pour moi!

    Le fonctionnaire douanier: Non, welcome back to Canada, Vas-y!

    It was interesting because that is the first time I got that response to my traditional “bonjour”. But even if all the customs officers can’t speak French these days, I was treated very politely and respectfully, as he surmised that I must be francophone, and should be treated respectfully.

    Furthermore when I replied in English that it wasn’t really necessary to get another agent, he had no questions, and just waved me through. I am sure he was still wondering if in fact I was a franco, despite Ontario plates, there are lots of French speakers here in Ontario after all.

    Cheerful respect, both sides, just no French at that particular drive through booth. If he would have given me French, I would have continued in French.

    About English in Chicoutimi … It isn’t, … for the most part. That’s why I went there! And I was very nicely treated by everyone, in nice slow French … no machine gun treatment … they knew my needs … only one English exchange in the whole 5 weeks there, I asked for directions in French at 3:30 a.m. while lost, and got an immediate answer in English from two young French guys. I made them, hilariously, repeat the instructions in French, with a huge smile on either side. They were highly amused and it was a shining moment all round.

    bruce

    May 18, 2010 at 12:00 pm

  10. ABP:

    The broader point that is being missed here is that those francophones who need to learn English or for whom there is an advantage to learn it, ALL know English.

    Whereas anglophones who would probably need to know French or for whom it would be advantageous to know French, only seem to learn it in proportions ranging from 25% (Ottawa and Moncton anglos), 50% (Montreal anglos) to 65% (anglos across Quebec).

    Then these same anglos (who have all sorts of exposure to French where they live BTW) go on about how French was imposed on them, shoved down their throats, and yadda yadda yadda…

    Acajack

    May 18, 2010 at 12:00 pm

  11. “I’m sorry you brush shoulders with so many indifferent or disdaining English speakers.”

    Hats off to you. There aren’t too many non-Francophones like you out there who are still trying. Not in the ROC, not in Quebec.

    But good for you. Keep reaching out. Keep me posted on the progress.

    “And judging from the mistakes found in the rare snippets of French he has typed here”

    Mistakes. Plural. But you must be referring to only one grammatical mistake. How does one mistake become mistakeS? Enlighten me.

    And if that’s all you got to build your case, then be it. No point getting into this and other confirmed suspicions. It’s more sidetracking anyways.

    noyb

    May 18, 2010 at 12:43 pm

  12. Acajack,
    I really doubt noyb lives in Arizona! I think he lives in Montréal even though it is “none of your business” I presume!

    As you know I personally make a million mistakes in French, but I am still curious to know if he does speak in French when in francophone neighbourhoods, and also if he mingles regularly.

    In any case there are always lots of frictions when two languages are in contact at near parity. It is sociological, and also speaks to the weaknesses of the human soul on both sides.

    Really! It is not a genetic thing in the DNA of people who had British ancestors as you sometimes seem to imply. Old stock Brits here in Toronto are pretty much in decline in any event.
    This is a city of “allos” who speak English in the 2nd generation. I know this is a huge sore point in Québec, but there is no “conspiracy”, these are sociological things that clear analysis will show the reasons.

    In my own humble opinion, the reason why around 40% of allo kids select English CEGEPS is because they are hedging their options. They are aware that if Québec did separate they might no longer have freedom of movement within Canada. Perfected English would increase their chance of being accepted as immigrants, in case they needed to get enough points. Although I doubt ROC would ever revoke their former citizenship rights, you never know for sure in a Harperian time-warped world of the future and I hope all that speculation is just science-fiction. There is a definite reptile within that guy for sure.
    Yes, I would vote BQ in any riding where there is a Tory to be brought down, but not for the purposes of separation, of course.

    But Harper could probably live with separation, if it could make him the KING of what is left of ROC. But I think he is pissing off a lot of women these days, so one never knows … there could be a reaction to his calculated risk taking, fawning to the (NON)-christian, so called, right wing evangelist “rapture me up, Scottie” wedge issue minority which needs a good re-buff from the main stream one of these days, fingers, crossed, please God!!

    But more practically, if you have both languages virtually perfect, then as an allo in Montreal you have much better prospects, plus you have other options available in the English world of NA even if QC remains your home turf.

    When you graduate from Grade 11 in Québec, as an allo, you presumably do speak French very well by then.

    For example, *Sammy Sugar*, a success of 101 as it stands.

    So, from the allo point of view, why not proceed to nail the other language? Extending 101 to CEGEPS therefore is PROBABLY not a good idea, and likely to back-fire.

    An item in today’s Toronto Star… there is a “confession-mobile” visiting both Toronto and Montreal! You go into a boudoir like confession room and tell the camera whether you told your friends about your secret visit to Montréal or to Toronto…

    8% of Montrealers who visited Toronto say they ‘fess up to their peer group. 19% of Torontonians who went to Montreal say they share that with their peers.

    Voilà! Montréal is more respectable to ‘fess up!

    Guilty pleasures??

    I’ll leave it to you to sift the tea leaves here!

    btw, the “confession-mobile” is a joint venture of Tourism Toronto and Tourisme Montréal.

    Sorry for my anglo-speak posts this morning. Je suis un peu épuissé et je ne suis pas en pleine forme français. Excuse-moi s.t.p.

    bruce

    May 18, 2010 at 12:51 pm

  13. “The broader point that is being missed here is that those francophones who need to learn English or for whom there is an advantage to learn it, ALL know English.”

    Look, let me make this simple.

    Is there more exposure to english in Quebec than in Canada than in, for instance, other parts of Canada such as the West.

    Would you agree, that the higher level of exposure is an advantage to learning the second language. I know when by grandson comes to visit he finds it very strange that there are very few french signs here. Just another issue of exposure, ACJ, which is quite asymetrical between Quebec and the ROC.

    It also works the other way for Anglos in Quebec who have much more exposure to the french language. Makes it far easier to acquire the second language when you are exposed to it on a daily basis.

    The only exposure I would be if I listen to SRC (which I do quite often). Certainly helps with listening but sure as hell doesnt do anything for presentation. Read, no exposure.

    ABP

    May 18, 2010 at 1:15 pm

  14. “Although I doubt ROC would ever revoke their former citizenship rights”

    This is just wishful thinking, but the most fair thing to do would be to allow the Non voters to keep Canadian citizenship, while stripping all the Oui voters of it. This, of course, would require that we attach our SIN number to the vote for identification purposes. Not too feasible, I know. But it would be fair – anyone who votes Oui should lose his/her Canadian citizenship on the spot. They don’t deserve it anyways.

    Another thing Canada could do (and should do), and this is feasible, is to introduce citizenship exclusion on Quebec. Meaning that anyone who becomes a citizen of Quebec is stripped of Canadian citizenship. Sort of like an Indian friend of mine who became a Canadian citizen a couple of weeks ago and immediately lost his Indian citizenship.

    This sort of regulation is within the rights of every country, and Canada should pursue it. It’d be interesting to see the aftermath. How many Quebeckers would end up refusing Quebec citizenship? A lot, I suspect.

    Imagine an independent Quebec with over half of its inhabitants refusing the citizenship? And being carved up and down through partition in addition? A beautiful prospect indeed.

    noyb

    May 18, 2010 at 1:17 pm

  15. “Is there more exposure to english in Quebec than in Canada than in, for instance, other parts of Canada such as the West.”

    Should be to english in Quebec than there is exposure to french in the ROC…such as the West.

    Sorry got distracted by the phone.

    ABP

    May 18, 2010 at 1:17 pm

  16. “Another thing Canada could do (and should do), and this is feasible, is to introduce citizenship exclusion on Quebec. Meaning that anyone who becomes a citizen of Quebec is stripped of Canadian citizenship. Sort of like an Indian friend of mine who became a Canadian citizen a couple of weeks ago and immediately lost his Indian citizenship.
    This sort of regulation is within the rights of every country, and Canada should pursue it. It’d be interesting to see the aftermath. How many Quebeckers would end up refusing Quebec citizenship? A lot, I suspect.”

    Since Canada does allow dual citizenships with other (often less recommendable) countries, this is not likely to be feasible. Canada would allow dual citizenships with dictatorships but not with Quebec? Hmmm.

    Acajack

    May 18, 2010 at 3:40 pm

  17. “Since Canada does allow dual citizenships with other (often less recommendable) countries, this is not likely to be feasible. Canada would allow dual citizenships with dictatorships but not with Quebec? Hmmm.”

    Highly doubtful that this will ever be an issue in our lifetimes (well, at least mine anyways).

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Quebec+sovereignty+irrelevant+poll/3043211/story.html

    Of course, as we well know, things can change rather rapidly in this relationship. Looks like the two solitudes seem to be stuck with each other. Maybe Alberta will separate to make things interesting.

    ABP

    May 18, 2010 at 3:57 pm

  18. “If you are correct, you must say that they are wrong. If they are right, then you must admit that you are wrong.”

    Yeah… I don’t know if I am “correct”. What’s right what’s wrong, what’s good, what’s evil… You are very privileged to live in a world where everything is black and white, where everyone knows who the good guys are and access to newspapers with no bias whatsoever.

    I live in a much more complex world.

    As for my “contradictions” I’ll be happy to explain my thoughts if you can tell me what exactly you find contradictory, because I have no idea what you are talking about.

    “He who has never contradicted himself has never been sincere” -An old Uyghur proverb

    angryfrenchguy

    May 18, 2010 at 4:32 pm

  19. @bruce: Our family has had a connection to the Francophonie, QC included, since the 1950s. It was taken for granted when I was growing up that I would learn French. My French is functional. My Spanish is execrable; it’s a sort of “Fragnol.” But I manage to make myself more or less understood with Spanish speakers here if the need arises.

    Reluctant to stray too far away from the QC/Canada topic here. Agreed that students of French need to learn the standard language, but it would not have hurt me if, for example, one or another of my French teachers had at some point also advised me about the variant froms that exist in the QC spoken language instead of pretending that North American French didn’t exist. I hope that this latter practice, especially, is being abandoned.

    Pennsylvania is sociologically split; the big metro areas (Phila., Pittsburgh) are–well–big American metropolitan areas. Most of the rest of the Commonwealth–politicians call it the “T” because of its shape–is effectively part of “Jesusland;” i.e. kind of like the American South and your Alberta.

    I am still rooting for our Flying Frenchmen (Briere, Giroux, Gagné et al.–all of whom have been playing superb hockey recently) to beat your Canadiens. But I know it takes seven games to decide this issue.

    littlerob

    May 18, 2010 at 5:07 pm

  20. “Since Canada does allow dual citizenships with other (often less recommendable) countries, this is not likely to be feasible. Canada would allow dual citizenships with dictatorships but not with Quebec? Hmmm.”

    I don’t know of any country that forbids dual citizenship for one particular country, but there are a number -such as India- that completely forbid dual citizenship.

    The reason Canada might want to do this (although I am not sure how this could be enforced really or that it’s politically realistic) is to avoid the possibility of 7 million people with dual citizenship living in Quebec, but claiming social benefits in Canada as well. I think if it ever decided to go this route, Canada would probably forbid all dual citizenship. I do hope it does not come that as I don’t want to lose my second passport…

    AM

    May 18, 2010 at 6:42 pm

  21. “But Harper could probably live with separation, if it could make him the KING of what is left of ROC”

    No Bruce, actually this is why the Ottawa federalists have always opposed Quebec separation, all parties included (remember the sponsorship party). If Quebec were to separate the centralized block of this country would lose power and Ottawa would have no other prospect than to relinquish control to the regions. (their worst nightmare, the West). Even with The BQ you can bet that Cuceppe favors to be on side with Ontario and the party du jour as it ensures the continuance of the status quo.

    It has nothing to do with the love in with Quebec (why do you think the feds pander to Quebec as they do). The option is to lose centralist control.

    ABP

    May 18, 2010 at 9:54 pm

  22. That should be Duceppe and not Cuceppe. Fingers moving to fast tonight, guess i should review my posts with a spell checker :)

    ABP

    May 18, 2010 at 9:56 pm

  23. Je viens de voir ce soir “La Sagouine” de Antonine Maillet (Prix de Goncourt etc.) avec l’incomparable et la superbe Viola Léger, née à Boutouche, Nouveau Brunswick. Elle doit avoir au moins soixante-quinze ans, et reste une actrice merveilleuse. C’est au Théâtre Pléaides à côté du Théâtre français de Toronto. Parmi le public assistant le spectacle ce soir, Frank McKenna, l’ancien premier de N.B. (la province officiellement bilingue, comme il faut.)

    C’est interessante de voir qu’il y a ici à Toronto une communauté française vive, confiante, et assurée. Environs 60,000 francophones, 1% de la population francophone de Québec et personne ici ne semble pas être malheureux ou pleurnicheur à cause de leur statut minoritaire.

    Mais à Québec avec cent fois plus personnes francophones, quelques-uns des gens se sentent ménacés par anglais? Ça ne se peut pas être croyable! Si la culture et la langue peuvent survivre ici avec 2.5 % de la population de Metro Toronto…

    La différence ici, c’est que les gens n’importe de quelle langue ne sont pas prêts de s’attaquer à la gorge, les uns aux autres.

    Il y aura 8 représentations anglaises de “La Sagouine”, une vieille femme acadienne pauvre, mais bien sage, une philosophe simple et digne, avec sa verité humble, honnête et “home spun” dans ce tour de force d’une seule personnage, et il y aura six représentations en français.
    Et le théâtre tout complèt, dans un mardi soir! Que de merveille!

    Vive, donc, la langue et la culture française à Toronto!

    bruce

    May 18, 2010 at 10:30 pm

  24. MQC, (AFG)

    Shouldn’t this forum really be called “There are no allophones in Manitoba, New Brunswick P.E.I. and Nfld.” ?

    Because their colours and respective shares are completely absent from your pie graph or so it seems!

    And that is pretty amazing!

    What is your source for this amazing statistical representation?

    On the other hand you also state, in seemingly contradictory fashion, that Manitoba with nothing at all on the pie graph has even more allophones than Quebec!

    Which “statistique” should one believe then?

    Can all of these *proofs* of either no, or some, or more allophones here or there in Canada be simultaneouly true?

    Or am I just naïve, and my tongue twisted into the wrong spot?

    Please correct and enlighten me here!

    bruce

    May 18, 2010 at 10:51 pm

  25. “Can all of these *proofs* of either no, or some, or more allophones here or there in Canada be simultaneouly true?”

    Here you go…the authority on language in Canada. Gives the data of mother tongue alien to Canada’s two official languages plus percentages of those who speak their mother tongue in the home. Quite enlightening.

    http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/html/provinces_e.php

    In Quebec you have about 12% with 7.6% being spoken in the home.

    Manitoba has about 21.4% with 10.2 % being spoken in the home.

    BC has 27.4% with a whopping 16.6 % being spoken in the home. (lots of Mandarin in Vancouver)

    “Just like Canada, where there are no more allophones”

    The statistics would differ from the statements of AGF.

    There is no doubt that with time the assimilation to english will likely happen. At this time, however, there seems to be an abundance of allophones in most Canadian provinces.

    AGF is just trying to align the allophones with the french. Unfortunately, this would be false agenda as french and english are the only two “official” languages of the country and the others have no particular status. A nice try though.

    ABP

    May 19, 2010 at 1:17 am

  26. @Bruce

    Click on the graph. It takes you straight to my data source.

    @ABP

    When I write that there are no allophones in Canada what I mean is that the Canadian media only feels it need to count allophones in Québec where it serves the political purpose of reducing the French population and (falsely) inflating the “other” population.

    Of course there are more allophones in BC and Ontario than in Québec. But isn’t it it telling that the media never talks about them or lumps them up with Francos as “non-Anglo-Ontarians” and observe that “non-anglo-Ontarians” form a distinct bloc of citizens?

    Of course they will never do that. If the language rights and freedoms Canada so dearly wants for Québec’s allophones were exported to the rest of Canada a whole generation of English-Canadians would be excluded from government and the workforce because they can’t speak Mandarin and Punjabi!

    This thread makes it clear that most people did not get my point, and as always, I take full responsability for this.

    angryfrenchguy

    May 19, 2010 at 8:12 am

  27. “I’m sorry you brush shoulders with so many indifferent or disdaining English speakers.”

    Bruce, you don’t have to apologize for anyone else’s behaviour. You more than go out of your way to reach out to the country’s *other* culture.

    Acajack

    May 19, 2010 at 8:21 am

  28. “Really! It is not a genetic thing in the DNA of people who had British ancestors as you sometimes seem to imply.”

    Bruce, I don’t think it is a genetic thing at all. Sorry if you thought I implied that.

    It is an offshot of crushing majority status on this continent and the global spread of English. If it were French in the same lofty perch francophones would act the same.

    My beef is with the fact that the political and other arrangements we have in Canada, including in Quebec, don’t take this reality fully into account.

    Acajack

    May 19, 2010 at 8:23 am

  29. ABP,

    Yeah, but I was asking AFG about PEI, and Nfld and New Brunswick ( and Manitoba) none of which show any ” allophones” on his pie-graph of Canada.

    As the “language authority for all of Canada”, ABP, I’m looking here for *spoof*, not *proof* !! But many thanks for providing the hard info for Manitoba.

    Regards,

    bruce

    May 19, 2010 at 8:24 am

  30. “C’est interessante de voir qu’il y a ici à Toronto une communauté française vive, confiante, et assurée. Environs 60,000 francophones, 1% de la population francophone de Québec et personne ici ne semble pas être malheureux ou pleurnicheur à cause de leur statut minoritaire.”

    That’s because those who are bothered by this minority status simply move away. I have tons of friends, acquaintances and neighbours who were originally from or lived at some point in the ROC, but who moved to Quebec so that their kids wouldn’t be assimilated.

    Those francophones who stay in Toronto, Vancouver, Halifax and Calgary are happy there because they accept their minority status and all that that entails.

    Acajack

    May 19, 2010 at 8:26 am


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