Could a People that Can’t Build a Highway Ever Build a Country?

with 137 comments


I believe Québec should be an independent country. I’m convinced. I’ve thought about it long and hard. I’ve discussed it through and through, with both true believers and fierce opponents. I’ve pondered the implications from a bar stool in an NDG tavern, in a yurt near Ulan Baator, and perhaps most significantly, walking down Sniper Alley in Sarajevo. Every time I’ve come to the conclusion that, as long as it is done right, it is the most simple and elegant solution to many political and cultural challenges Québec faces.

Robert Lepage, one of the most famous playwrights and scenographers in the world, was on TV the other day. This is not a nationalist firebrand. He was reminiscing about how he grew up sharing a room in Québec City with his adopted English-speaking brother and how he has nothing but admiration for English-Canada, one of the great small L liberal societies. He then casually mentioned that he was a sovereigntist, notheless. He’s reached the same conclusion I have. I’m on the good side, I thought.

Then Guy A. Lepage, once Québec’s most merciless social critic and a man who is not known to have much patience for fools—although he’s now a much nicer man as host of Tout le Monde en Parle on Radio-Canada—agreed to MC Québec’s Fête Nationale this summer. He is also a sovereigntist. I thought, if he thinks Québec’s independence movement is for real, I’m not being taken for a ride.

Then Pauline Marois, the leader of the Parti québécois, unveiled the grand master plan that will take us from here to there, the roadmap independence and I thought, that’s it. I’m done. I’m moving to Toronto.

What’s wrong with these people, tabarnak? How can they take a project that inspires even our most inspired men and just turn it into 10 kinds of frustration? Why does building a country, a hospital, a goddam highway, have to always become the most complicated and aggravating project in the history of human society?

We’re here! According the the latest PQ internal poll, quoted in le Devoir, 49% of the Québécois, including 56% of those who speak French, are game! Sixty-one percent would settle for some sort of sovereignty-association deal with Canada. Two thirds at least want Québec to have a special status.

Even if those numbers are somewhat more positive than others we’ve seen recently, the trend is solid: even in this period of economic uncertainty, support for independence hovers in the high thirties to high forties.

The Conservative Party of Canada was barely able to keep up the « federalism of openess » charade a year and a half before breaking out into anti-separatist demonstrations and the more familiar calls to pacify the French with some « tough love ».

The new leader of the Liberal Party of Canada has already announced that Canada was as good as it was going to get!

The sovereignty movement has it made. There is only a few thousand votes separating them from the country. Canadian federalists have no counter offer, no vision, no dream. Canada in the country of No. The Parti québécois is the Parti of Oui. Yes we can!

Yet, they can’t.

The PQ has all this positive and entrepreneurial energy just sitting on it’s lap, waiting, itching to start building something, anything. What do they do? Do they open up the phones, start compiling projects until there is just so many fucking cool things to do that Québec will just pop out of Canada by itself?

Nope. The PQ wants to talk about shit that don’t work. Their great plan is to ask for federal powers they know they can’t get and threaten their own supporters with multiple referendums on boring ass crap like « single tax returns » just so they can pick a fight with Ottawa because, as Jacques Parizeau candidly admitted on tuesday: « To acheive sovereingty, you need a crisis. »

The PQ is stuck in a procedural dead end, wasting it’s energy on finding a gimmick instead of thinking about the way that country would work and what we could do with it.

That is the reason why the PQ usually trails it’s own raison d’être in the polls. That is also why, according to the poll published in le Devoir, only 34% of the Québécois believe Québec will ever be an independent country. Not because they don’t want one. Because they’ve come to believe the PQ is to proccupied with saving it’s own ass to ever pull it off.

Written by angryfrenchguy

June 11, 2009 at 1:38 pm

137 Responses

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  1. Personally, I thought inviting anglo bands to « L’Autre St-Jean » was a fantastic idea. A great way to send the message that, « Hey, you’re in the gang if you want in! » to the anglo community.
    After all, the Québécois context is largely made up of anglos thinking this society is closed to them, while francos perceive that they just don’t want in to start with.

    Now, isn’t inviting someone to a party the best way to help break the ice ?

    So I was really pissed to hear about the SSJB protesting and pressuring the organizers that way. And especially pissed to hear that some people threatened to disrupt the event.
    …Stupid clowns.

    This being said, there is just one point I’d like to make :
    It is not wholly irrational to wish for Quebec’s national day to be celebrated in French, given the context. That is, given that we live in a federation where French culture is largely ignored, when not decried as an imposition. So I can understand that, on this one day, we may want to celebrate in French.

    But I find this is one case where such principles, right or wrong, mattered way less than basic humaneness.
    -Now, the message that was received is “Hey, we were right all along : They don’t wouldn’t let us in the gang even if we wanted in”.

    Reading different blogs, at least I see that the majority of francos appear to think like me. But that’s definitely not what the anglo community will remember from this event.


    June 14, 2009 at 4:31 pm

  2. Michel:
    “If the quote is so true, then why are PQ leaders so heavily involved in business?”

    “The point I’m making is that the rich and powerful love the controversy and will finance any and all ways to keep it going. It’s a great way to keep the status quo.”

    Well, for sure: that’s why they fund so much separatist think-tanks, like L’Idée Fédérale or the Trudeau Institute.


    June 14, 2009 at 4:31 pm

  3. fred—I think that for all intents and purposes, your French teachers were on to something in their condescending way. My perception is that there are several different kinds of French spoken in Québec, one of which is the kind you and I learned in school, or something close to it anyway, with the others being languages that are at least phonologically very different. In my limited experience, I have been able to hold my own in French pretty well as long as I stay in the greater Montréal area, because most people there either speak something like the kind of French we were taught or are accustomed enough to dealing with French-speaking Anglos to alter their speech patterns so that we can figure out what they are saying. However, once I get out in the countryside where they don’t see too many Anglos, it’s a different story. Depending on where I have gone, the people either speak a language that I have difficulty picking up or one that I can’t understand at all. It’s French all right, but the vowels, especially, vary so much from what I was taught that it doesn’t register on me. And it’s frustrating for me, believe me. I have been places where I am sure I have put many people under the impression that I am just another dim Anglo bulb.

    I blame my teachers for all of this. As long as there are Anglos learning French in the northeastern part of North America, we need to be taught the French that people actually speak here WITHOUT being told that what we are learning is “corrupted” or a “sub-dialect” or any other labels that amateur linguists may apply to it. If my car breaks down on the 20 near Drummondville, it is this kind of French that I’m going to need to be able to make out; the “correct” Parisian variety won’t be much help.


    June 14, 2009 at 4:41 pm

  4. “…dans le camp du NON, les forces de l’argent (chefs de grandes entreprises, milieux d’affaires, chambres de commerce, conseil du patronat, banques, capital financier, etc.)…”

    Hey, they forgot “le vote ethnique”. We contributed too. I’m offended.

    “…dans le camp du OUI, le peuple (mouvement syndical, mouvement féministe, groupes populaires, la majorité des intellectuels et des artistes…”

    …and Chewbacca!


    June 14, 2009 at 5:54 pm

  5. Hey, they forgot “le vote ethnique”. We contributed too. I’m offended.

    yes, and we already know how you regard the ethnics who didn’t vote your way. Why can’t The Help just stick to the program and follow the script?


    June 14, 2009 at 7:14 pm

  6. @ Littlerob

    It’s not very realistic to put the burden of preparing you for all the regional accents on your French teachers.

    I mean, I’ve learnt standard N-American English in school, and that surely didn’t prepare me for the language I heard when I first went to work with lumberjacks in Northern Alberta.
    And, boy, was I in for a surprise when I first met a Texas cowboy!
    Not to mention all the efforts it took me to accustom myself to British, Australian, Scottish, etc. accents.

    You’re all right to point out that teachers describing Quebec French as being substandard is both idiotic and won’t help anybody learning.
    And the fact is, as much here as with any French-speaking countries, starting with France, you’ll find all sorts of regionalisms that your French immersion classes won’t prepare you for.

    The only way to adapt what you learn to that reality is through exposure.


    June 14, 2009 at 8:06 pm

  7. I agree with Raman. It’s certainly true that Quebec French has substantial difference with French from France, but calling “substandard” is just as stupid and insulting as calling American English substandard.

    And it’s quite natural to have a bit more difficulty with unfamiliar accents. When I was learning English, I went through a phase during which I could understand a “neutral” American accent without too much trouble, but I found British accents nearly incomprehensible. Of course it eventually went away, through practice and exposure.


    June 14, 2009 at 9:23 pm

  8. Raman—My French teachers, all of whom were born in Europe, and all of whom were otherwise excellent educators, dealt with North American French either by dismissing it or by ignoring it completely. Not a good way to treat the language of millions of people who don’t live all that far from me. And if I understand fred’s experience correctly, this sort of thing still goes on.

    I just wish that at least one of my teachers had been “broadminded” enough to start off a class one day by saying something like, “oh, by the way, if you ever get to Québec or New Brunswick you’ll hear things like…,” and/or “Don’t listen to the people who say stupid things about the French they speak in Québec.” In the meantime, I, and plenty of other Anglos I suspect, will have to do exactly as you say, which is jump in and sink or swim.

    BTW, my experience in Europe is that people who normally speak regional varieties of French will instantly switch over to the standard language once they hear someone like me who speaks (or tries, anyway, to speak) standard French with a slight foreign accent; it seems to me to be sort of a reflex with them. My perception is that the corresponding reflex in much of Québec is to switch over to English (or sign language). And my reaction is always to try to continue the conversation in French, not that I always succeed. And now it looks as if what I am writing is turning political…


    June 15, 2009 at 4:47 am

  9. « And now it looks as if what I am writing is turning political… »

    …and we wouldn’t want that in here.


    June 15, 2009 at 6:52 am

  10. “It would be cheaper than the thousand bucks a head per year we give you in equalization in the long run, which finances the arts and culture that you mock us for not having (culture, that is) because we can’t afford it because we give you so much money.”

    This insinuation – that the ROC has no culture because all of Canada’s money is spent on Quebec culture – is a load of bull.

    It is true that that generally speaking arts/culture funding for Quebec/francophone production is quite a bit higher than our proportion of Canada’s population.

    However, there are two perfectly good reasons for this.

    First, is that when you make the decision to have national networks operating in two languages like the CBC/SRC, you must remember that a TV camera costs the same whether it is being bought for the English network and its 20 million potential viewers or the French network and its 8 million potential viewers. A unionized reporter will make the same salary whether he works for CBC or SRC. Building a studio doesn’t cost less just because it’s being built for SRC instead of CBC.

    And in any event, in spite of the alleged disparities in funding resulting from superficial analyses, as has been said before on this forum, the CBC’s main French TV network is the only unit in the entire Mother Corp. org chart that could be a commercially viable enterprise without government funding.

    As for other forms of arts/culture funding, many of them like Telefilm Canada (providing funding for films and TV shows) do disproportionately fund stuff in French, but that’s because of government/corporate guiding principles for doling out the cash that place emphasis on “performance” (box office receipts, critical acclaim, etc.) If you put forward a movie project that has a good chance of being a commercial success, there’s a better chance that they’ll help you out. And we all know in which language most of Canada’s commercially successful films/TV shows are made.

    Aside from those issues, there is of course the traditional cop-out/blame game here that the fact that, notwithstanding a few exceptions, most people in the ROC have a cultural diet that is 90-95% American, is somehow Quebec’s fault.

    I’ve heard it all before: Quebec has a vibrant culture and the ROC doesn’t because the feds spend all their cultural money in Quebec. This belies the fact that there is nonetheless lots of money in the ROC for culture as well, that 23 million affluent people is by any world measure plenty large enough to support a dynamic national culture, and that a large part of Quebec’s cultural dynamism also comes from provincial funding, which is higher than any other province’s contribution (double Ontario’s for example).

    It’s not Quebec’s fault if people in Pincher Creek or Powassan prefer to watch My Name is Earl and read Danielle Steel.


    June 15, 2009 at 8:17 am

  11. Sounds like the organizers have done a great job of shooting themselves in the foot.

    Still, I am not sure of my opinion on this.

    On the one hand anglos are certainly an important part of Quebec and I would never disagree with that. They have been almost totally absent (at least expressing themselves in their language) from the St-Jean festivities and it would be good to hear from them in their own language.

    On the other hand, it is true that as some people have said that English-language music (but not necessarily Anglo-Quebec music, mind you) has a huge presence in Quebec and francophone music is often made to play second fiddle to it and is often absent from the public sphere. For example, everyone knows that there appears to be an unwritten bylaw on the island of Montreal that makes it illegal to tune any type of store or commercial establishment’s audio system to a francophone radio station. Although it is an unwritten bylaw, anyone who goes out on a shopping excursion in the city knows that this bylaw is strictly enforced and that compliance is near 100%. So I can see the point of the nationalists who want the St-Jean to be a once-a-year opportunity to boost French-language music.

    Anyway, it does appear as though this neighbourhood fête is being put on by a private organization, right? I don’t believe it’s a government-sponsored event, although they may have gotten some token funds from the province, as many of these fêtes do.

    And if St-Jean organizers do decide to accept anglo bands (if not this year, then perhaps in a future year), I am hoping that this open-mindedness will reach across the Ottawa River, and that radio stations who play all-Canadian lineups on July 1 will find it in their hearts to play at least one song in French during the 24 years in which they claim to be playing “the best of Canadian music”.


    June 15, 2009 at 8:48 am

  12. Edward: “That doesn’t make it a false statement, Acajack.”

    Yes it is. Read what Amir said originally: that bilingualism rates between francophones and anglophones were not “vastly different”. Nearly 40% for francophones vs. less than 10% for anglophones qualifies as “not vastly different”?????


    June 15, 2009 at 10:43 am

  13. “OK, let’s get this straight. 40% of Francophones in Quebec speak English whereas a much lesser percentage of Anglophones in the ROC speak French. True. But compare that to nearly 100% of Allophones who, sooner or later, learn English, despite being subjected to a hysterical campaign of francisation. Some learn English better, some worse, but all are able to carry a conversation and don’t freak out or get offended when addressed in English. Why can’t the Francophones do what the Allophones are doing?”

    Wrong again Allophone. Just over 20% of allophones in Quebec speak only French (in addition to their native language) and a nearly equal % (just under 20%) speak only English (in addition to their native language of course). Another 5% or so speaks neither French nor English and only knows their native language. The rest (some 60% very roughly speaking) are the trilinguals you describe.

    And it’s not true that the ones who speak only French (and even some of the trilinguals) don’t resent having to speak English. Many more recent immigrants moved to Quebec on the presumption that it was a francophone society and that they would be able to use a language they already knew to facilitate their integration. Others knew no French upon their arrival here, took stock of the situation in Quebec society, and put in considerable efforts to learn French. So, globalizationist linguistic trends aside, they are not too appreciative or sympathetic when they run into people who have lived in Quebec all their lives (or a significant period of time) and don’t know enough French to interact with a dépanneur clerk, or serve customers in French *as* a dépanneur clerk.


    June 15, 2009 at 11:10 am

  14. ABP: “I think you might be correct. A matter of numbers.
    So then French in Quebec all you want and desire. That said, can we please get rid of the OLA in the ROC, with all that money wasted on a french imperatives for a population that is less than 2.8% of the total. You can’t have it both ways!
    Fair trade ACJ..??”

    I never said that that’s what I wanted (French only in Quebec). Though I know that a lot of people do want that.

    My point has always been that Canadian language policy should stop acting as though English was as “endangered” in Quebec as French is across Canada (including Quebec in fact), and as aboriginal languages are even more.

    The truth is that English is going to remain fairly dominant in this part of the world as it will continue to be used extensively (and often exclusively) for administrative and other purposes both by the public and private sectors in Canada.

    Pretending that it is somehow “endangered” in certain areas of the country only does further damage to French and aboriginal languages, which should actually benefit from even greater measures to ensure their viability.

    Now, to do this would not require the shutting down of all anglo institutions in Quebec, but it does necessitate a significant shift in thinking and public policy. At the moment, if you were to ask most people in the ROC, they would say that English in Quebec is more endangered than French in their own provinces. Anywhere except New Brunswick (and even there), this is totally preposterous, on par with the non-aboriginals who think that natives have a better socio-economic status than they do (and there are quite a few people who think this way).


    June 15, 2009 at 11:26 am

  15. “Just over 20% of allophones in Quebec speak only French”

    For those that just went through the “integration” programs, give them time to clear their heads. Talk to them in a year.

    “And it’s not true that the ones who speak only French (and even some of the trilinguals) don’t resent having to speak English”

    Please. Dude, seriously…

    “Others knew no French upon their arrival here, took stock of the situation in Quebec society, and put in considerable efforts to learn French”

    There are also plenty of those who took stock of the situation in Quebec society, packed up and moved on. But let’s not burden ourselves with these.

    “So, globalizationist linguistic trends aside, they are not too appreciative or sympathetic when they run into people who have lived in Quebec all their lives (or a significant period of time) and don’t know enough French to interact with a dépanneur clerk, or serve customers in French *as* a dépanneur clerk.”

    Where have you seen a depanneur clerk that doesn’t speak French? Let me know. I’ll pass by and take a picture of this historical site.


    June 15, 2009 at 1:01 pm

  16. ACJ,

    “I never said that that’s what I wanted (French only in Quebec). Though I know that a lot of people do want that.”

    No, I know that you don’t feel this way. Unfortunately their are those who equate Quebec’s cultural preservation on issues of protecting the language. Your right about some who think this way, look at the BQ proposed legislation which was defeated by the Cons and Libs but supported by Musclair and NDP.

    “The truth is that English is going to remain fairly dominant in this part of the world as it will continue to be used extensively (and often exclusively) for administrative and other purposes both by the public and private sectors in Canada”

    330 million anglos and 6 million francos. I don’t think there is any doubt about the positioning of the english language ACJ.

    “At the moment, if you were to ask most people in the ROC, they would say that English in Quebec is more endangered than French in their own province”

    This likely in most part due to Loi 101 and the concepts associated with the OQLF such as the “dreaded” language cops. Many in Canada perceive 101 and it’s provisions as a law that is openly discriminatory against the english language and not as a law put in place to protect the french language what is the fundamental raison d’etre. (others might argue this ). Of course with the sign laws and recent events as such as the Irish Pub incident what are they too think?

    Gosh, I wonder what they will think when the issues surrounding the “Lake of Stew” are widely publicized in the ROC.. The national media revel in issues such as this. The letters and reader comments should be interesting.

    Actually, it is french which is in peril in the ROC where it has declined a full 25% in common usage in the last five years according to Stats Canada. Not sure about the english usage in quebec although it wouldn’t surprise me if usage has increased over the same period, as apparently the number of anglos in Quebec has increased, for the first time in many years, again, according to Stats Canada.

    Numbers tell a story, but not likely the entire story.

    Way off subject anyways,I like the graphic AFG used as a header for this thread.


    June 15, 2009 at 1:19 pm

  17. I am only repeating what they tell me.

    Interestingly enough, my allophone friends and neighbours seem to have more run-ins with unilingual English store staff than I do for some reason…


    June 15, 2009 at 1:26 pm

  18. “There are also plenty of those who took stock of the situation in Quebec society, packed up and moved on. But let’s not burden ourselves with these.”

    Still not sure how this makes Quebec any different from any other place…


    June 15, 2009 at 1:43 pm

  19. So…where’s my post about boycotting fast food franchises, Wal-Mart, Costco and dubbed movies?

    All of those take money out of Quebec and certainly don’t really help the local or provincial economy. They don’t contribute to any real independence.

    The obsession on just language as a sign of “independence” just shows how little people have thought about real independence. If your money goes out of the province to a multi-national corporation, headquartered outside of Quebec, that provides the lousy food or services or movies in French, who cares?


    June 15, 2009 at 3:02 pm

  20. Michel,

    I read your previous rants and I can’t figure if you’re a troll or for real. You seem to conflate nationalism with knee-jerk protectionism. But Quebec is an open economy. If we want to sell abroad (and we do sell a lot), we have to accept that foreign businesses will set up shop here. If they offer good value and respect the laws of the land, they’ll get my business.

    Wal-Mart doesn’t get my business because they mock our labour laws. I don’t eat at MacDo because it tastes like s**t. But I do shop as Costco.


    June 15, 2009 at 4:18 pm

  21. Have you ever BEEN to Montréal, Allophone, or do you only live in the CTV/Mix96/NDG special economic zone?


    June 15, 2009 at 5:04 pm

  22. Re culture: Read some of Morty Richler’s musings on anglo Canadian culture. It seems to me to be Richler’s thesis that many talented anglo Canadians eventually move to the US to do their thing because the money is better. (Richler put it more bluntly than this, actually.) I guess that people like Neil Young, Denny Doherty, Bill Shatner, Jim Carrey, etc., would fall into this category; even Richler himself spent part of his career in Britain, and he sold some of his material to Hollywood. Francos can’t break into the US market as easily, of course; the ones who have done it, like Céline Dion, have done it in English. I therefore sense that the best of the Franco artists are more likely to stay at home (or try their luck in Francophone Europe, or both) than the best of the Anglos.

    BTW, I hope I will be pardoned for saying that I don’t think that we in the US are hearing in Céline the best singer now active in Québec, or even someone who is necessarily one of the top ten.


    June 15, 2009 at 7:33 pm

  23. Je pense que cette decision stupide n’est pas appuyee par la majorite et sera, ou devra etre revisee. Le pont entre francophones et anglophones est difficile mais il se construit plus facillement chez ceux qui oeuvrent dans les domaines de la musique et du cinema. Ca fait des annees qu’on cherche a faire participer tous les quebecois a notre fete nationale et voila qu’un groupe de zeles envoient le message contraire. Ce n’est pas quelques chansons en anglais de la part de nos compatriotes anglophones qui va nuire au fait francais. Il est a esperer que l’opinion publique pourra faire pression sur les organisateurs pour qu’ils les reintegrent dans la programmation..


    June 15, 2009 at 8:09 pm

  24. Well, Pauline Marois turns my stomach too. She’s reminds me E.T. for some reason, only more menopausal.

    My issue overall is that Quebec gives me nothing to believe in. I’m an American transplant. I don’t hate French or French-Canadians. I don’t feel like I have a stake in the historical resentments that plague Quebec. However, I have to say that the way this debate continues on seriously turns my stomach.

    What it comes down to is this: if Quebec gave me something to believe in, I’d be behind it. What I get instead is angry Frenchies complaining to recent Chinese immigrants about their bad French (actual experience), pouty public servants who can’t be bothered to translate fairly arcane, technical French words into English (actual experience), and a non-stop parade of ridiculousness: Marois’ citizenship plan, Parizeau’s crisis plan, some idiot barring an Anglo Band from a concert to celebrate Jean Baptiste Day. It’s petty, it’s dumb.

    I guess what I’m saying is this: Quebec nationalism turns me off BIG TIME. I’m not about to support a movement that can’t see beyond it’s own nose. The majority reading this board may not care about this, but every non-Quebecois I’ve met in Montreal feels the same way: either prove to me that Quebec is going to be a blazing beacon of liberty (in which case I’m the first to sign on to le Quebec libre) or trot out the same boring arguments, the same awful politicians, the same awful prejudices and, yes, I’ll say it, the same ethnocentric arguments and I’ll continue on my way thinking Quebec will never make it on its own.


    June 15, 2009 at 8:36 pm

  25. First point: your comment on Marois was way out of line and you should apologize, Donder.

    And second, Quebec is sometimes a beacon of liberty and an inspiration. Take labor law: According to this wire story, Obama got its inspiration for the Employee Free Choice Act in the Quebec Labour Code.

    It’s interesting to read the the colonialist attitude exhibited in the previous comment. It’s not like it’s the first of its kind. One can sense the condescension about the grotesque Québécois, too immature to run their own affairs. This caricature keeps The Gazette from running under, but it’s nowhere near the truth. But I guess, that passes for informed comment in the anglosphere.


    June 15, 2009 at 10:00 pm

  26. Zzzzzz…and that’s exactly my point.


    June 15, 2009 at 10:05 pm

  27. “Others knew no French upon their arrival here, took stock of the situation in Quebec society, and put in considerable efforts to learn French.”

    So 5 years spent in a French high school do not count as an effort?

    Have my efforts been nullified by my attitude?


    June 15, 2009 at 10:12 pm

  28. — “So 5 years spent in a French high school do not count as an effort?”

    Not until we see some grades.


    June 15, 2009 at 10:24 pm

  29. “Have my efforts been nullified by my attitude?”

    Quite frankly, yes.


    June 15, 2009 at 10:56 pm

  30. People, we have to go out of this dammed place. Quebec is not the land to live here any more. Poor business, french racism, PQ, enough.


    June 15, 2009 at 11:05 pm

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