AngryFrenchGuy

From the Plains of Abraham to Abraham Lincoln

with 201 comments

250e quebec

There are two schools of thought in Québec when it comes to the historical significance of the British conquest of 1759.  The so-called Montréal school of thinkers consider it was a historical, economic and social tragedy that stunted the development of French-canadian culture and society.  According to the Québec school of thought it spared Québec from the chaos and violence of the French Revolution and gave it access to British government and democracy.

I’m more partial to the second school’s interpretation.  The conquest did result in two centuries of rule by a lunatic papist theocracy propped up by a cotery of racist British robber-barons, but at the end of the day, we’re still here, we’re still speaking French and we can only imagine how much bloodier things would’ve been if New France had been conquered by the Spaniards or the Dutch.

The conquest was a thing.  It happened.  What are you gonna do about it?

We’ll I know at least one thing I wouldn’t do about it is celebrate it.

Yet, that’s exactly what Québec City is getting ready to do.

The National Battlefields Commission is organizing a full-scale re-enactment of both the battle and the siege of Québec this summer to commemorate the 250th anniversary of the British Conquest of New France.

I get it.  The whole thing is historically-minded.  There’s going to be conferences by scholars.  The website says they are ‘marking’ the anniversary, not having a party.  The poster for the event shows two smiling generals shaking hands and the program includes a comedy cabaret with Wolfe and Montcalm impersonators.

Yet you have to be seriously clueless to think that a full-scale re-enactment of the mother of all of Québec’s many historical traumas and unresolved ‘issues’ is going to go down without drama.  Come on!  It was only a few months ago that some people nearly lost it because Paul McCartney went on the Plains to sing in English!

The Réseau de Résistance des Québécois and filmmaker Pierre Falardeau have already given the organisers an ultimatum: “This is why the Réseau de Résistance du Québécois (RRQ) is as of now on the war path, to be ready to get into action on the 15th of February if the said commission does not back down by then and announce the cancellation of the event.”

I can already imagine the the battalion of Jeunes Patriotes with flags and gaz masks charging the middle aged suburban Americans in tights playing the role of the british troops.  Maybe Amir Khadir will attack the Wolfe impersonator with his shoes.

This said, I do think they have a point. The Conquest is a very emotional and significant historical event.  In the country with the Occident’s strongest and best organized secessionist movement, you’d think people would take that into consideration.

Compare this to the emotionally charged and masterfully played lead up to Barack Obama’s inauguration.  This week we saw the president-elect re-enact the train trip Abraham Lincoln took to Washington on the eve of the Civil War and a massive concert was held in front of the Lincoln monument where Martin Luther King gave the most famous american speech ever.  All of this evokes slavery, civil war and segregation, but in the context of the the first black president’s swearing in, America is actually creating a brand new historical moment.  A moment of reconciliation.

Over here the Canadian government thinks it can defuse the memory of the Conquest by treating it like the emotional equivalent of the war of the Peloponese and turning it into a vaudeville.  This is the opposite of what the Americans are doing.  This is trivializing the past. It is disrespecting the many Québécois who still have the memory of the consequences of the Conquest stuck in their throats.

Next year: the re-enactment of the American Indian genocide!

Written by angryfrenchguy

January 18, 2009 at 8:51 pm

201 Responses

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  1. johnnyonline — I think you touch on an interesting point in your 1:27 post. The English-French connection goes back a long way, and it has been nearly continuous. The English crown held land in France until 1559, a date that was within living memory when England and France set up their first colonies in North America in the early 17th century. For better or worse, the English speaking peoples and Francophones have been linked politically and culturally for most of the last millenium; I think that Québec/Canada is just another incarnation of this “entente glaciale.”

    littlerob

    January 23, 2009 at 8:59 am

  2. “johnnyonline — I think you touch on an interesting point in your 1:27 post. The English-French connection goes back a long way, and it has been nearly continuous. The English crown held land in France until 1559, a date that was within living memory when England and France set up their first colonies in North America in the early 17th century. For better or worse, the English speaking peoples and Francophones have been linked politically and culturally for most of the last millenium; I think that Québec/Canada is just another incarnation of this “entente glaciale.””

    Of course. Fundamentally, French and English are really enemy (in the soft sense of the term, at least in modern times) brothers, or at the least very least cousins. The same can be said even for, dare I say, Jews and Muslims.

    Acajack

    January 23, 2009 at 10:10 am

  3. “You weren’t exaggerating the time you said I might be your evil separatist twin.
    Seriously, it’s uncanny. In fact, I look just like you, except I have a pointy little black goatee and goat horns.
    What’s that? How do I know what you look like?
    I’m standing outside your window right now! Bwah hahahahahahahaha!
    All kidding aside… Could open the door, bro? I’m freezing my ass off out here.”

    My long-lost brother! Mon frère! ‘Tis you!

    More seriously, I’d be curious to know which part of Ontario you are from. I have only lived in Ottawa and its eastern suburbs, however through extended family and friends as well as work, I am quite familiar with rural Eastern Ontario as well as Northeastern Ontario. So basically I know all of the larger Franco-Ontarian communities out there reasonably well.

    Acajack

    January 23, 2009 at 10:14 am

  4. @gcl

    In school, I learned a ‘history’ not an ‘attitude’ towards another linguistic group. I accepted simply my Canadian roots owed much to both heritages.

    Age of sixteen, my Grade 12 history essay was a proposal, pooh-poohed as hopelessly naïve by my Scottish origined teacher, Mrs. Macdonald, for a bunch of UN sponsered initiatives to secure peace (and co-operation) in the world, a perspective I haven’t let go off.

    War is a fundamental human mistake, always of tragic proportions. And whether god exists or doesn’t it is completely wrong — we sacrifice what could be noble in ourselves when we kill another.

    Therefore when I’m on the Plains of Abraham the ‘poignant aspect’ of my bi-national cultural roots has nothing to do with “anglos rock and francos can gratefully have what’s left over etc.”

    The poignancy for me is the sorrow and folie of war, where ordinary men fall and die, and the universe of their families is smashed and overturned to satisfy the arrogant egos of kings and their ministers, far off in London and Paris, in this case.

    No matter how often you may hear sentiments or boasts of domination and submission and taunts like that, they are obviously puerile and stupid.

    And obviously so in this current age where both Canada and Quebec have come of age into a respectful civil society where equality of citizenship and rights are the uppermost thing of importance.

    That is not to deny the reality of history, or the wrongful treatment of the french population at the hands of british colonial masters for most of the next 200 years.

    Our generation (or perhaps the next one or the one after) could do well, though, to get past some of the lingering bitterness….

    We are 21st century canadian now, drawn like a rainbow from around the planet. If you speak anglo you can be a Canuck, if franco you can be a Quénuck,or (Quénadien … thanks Edward!) in reference to the federation, and just Ontarian or Québécois in reference to the local “patrie”

    Using these terms, I’m not suggesting, as you do, any actual withdrawal of Québec from Canada. That is still a subject of francophones duking it out amongst themselves, both in parliament and in the assemblée nationale.

    Canada of 2009 cannot be really said to ‘dominate’ Québec … that is more something that exists,it seems, in the psyche of many, … but Québec does tend to ‘dominate’ Canadian politics… something to which both Canucks and Quénucks are well accustomed.

    Always respecfully, BTW

    bruce

    January 23, 2009 at 11:55 am

  5. “Is that any way to diss our largest trade partner…They have their problems for sure but so do we and our problems are a lot smaller than theirs at this time.
    One must be careful with cavalier criticisms.”

    I am not dissing the U.S. They have their problems and we certainly have ours. Now, note that the people who usually point out the problems I described and who most vocally criticize the U.S. for them are generally Americans themselves, demanding change from within.

    Acajack

    January 23, 2009 at 12:20 pm

  6. Acajack — The Jewish-Muslim (I would say Jewish-Arab) tension/conflict has only really been going on for the last sixty years or so (and only sporadically before that), and it is complicated by the emotional divide of religion and an argument over who Dad’s rightful heir is, both materially and spiritually. Language is of secondary importance; many Israelis, at least, especially those with roots in one of the Arabic-speaking countries, know Arabic, and Arabs have told me that they can pick up spoken Hebrew.

    Notwithstanding the relatively short duration of this conflict, it has all the earmarks of a very ugly vendetta, complete with accusations by each side (sometimes true) that the other murders kids, rapes women, etc. The closest thing I can think of in a European context is the Greek-Turkish conflict, which, like the one in Palestine, has the added ingredient of a dispute over the ownership of holy sites (e.g. the Hagia Sophia).

    By contrast, the Anglo/Franco divide in North America is linguistic and to a lesser extent cultural. And fortunately for everyone concerned, it seems to be mostly a war of words nowadays.

    One point of nomenclature is common to both “solitudes,” however; very often, each side unconsciously refers to itself as “local” and the other as “foreign.”

    Québécois: “québécois” and “anglais.”
    Canadian: “Canadian” and “French.”
    Israeli: “Israeli” and “Arab.”
    Palestinian: “falastini” and “yahud.”

    littlerob

    January 23, 2009 at 2:40 pm

  7. Littlerob:

    Yeah, Greeks and Turks are actually pretty close as well aren’t they? Who is it that invented baklava again?

    Acajack

    January 23, 2009 at 3:38 pm

  8. Bruce
    “Listen you came here from the States a handful of years ago, and are raising the possibility of just 10 separate little jurisdictions “with a common currency”!”

    That is exactly what Quebec wants and what I want. I want your so-called Canadian values. Quebec wants to manage its own affairs with only an economic partnership with the rest of Canada including a common currency. Quebec even wants to go further; it is in favour of a common North American currency whereas Canada is not. Guys like Edward would be welcome very much in Quebec.

    With your own words, Bruce, you prove that there are fondamental differences between Canada and Quebec and that each should go its separate ways. As if Meech Lake is not enough of an indicator of the divide between the two.

    “How then is Canada going to have any leverage left with your former super power home? That is an insane idea.:

    What leverage? There is almost none. If Canada is that worried about having little influence in the US then why don’t Canada just join the US? They are both democratic and English speaking countries and they both lap up American culture. There is absolutely no difference between the two. Canada is an artificial country.

    Antonio

    January 23, 2009 at 4:42 pm

  9. jacques chirac was in hospital earlier this week suffering from an attack of his “depressed” pet dog. reports did not say where he was bit.

    some people have suggested his longtime pet is really a “german” poodle.

    i kid you not.

    johnnyonline

    January 23, 2009 at 6:02 pm

  10. I know this is off topic but I found it a bit errr, well…interesting. The Canadian Press report is a bit longer than this one. I would assume many have already seen it. Looks like another event may bypass le belle province due to issues as this.

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/Sports/Bull+thin+with+Quebec+government/1210991/story.html

    ABP

    January 23, 2009 at 7:20 pm

  11. abp,
    thanks for the grist.
    funny but notwithstanding… a bit sad.

    personally, i don’t care what they call it:

    boume patin!
    le big bang
    contusions caffeine
    or my favourite…
    glace briseurs kerreck.

    johnnyonline

    January 23, 2009 at 7:52 pm

  12. Wow! I’ve been missing out on the party going on here. You’ve all expressed some really interesting insights.

    Bruce, you truly live up to your ideals of Canadians being all about compromise and tolerance. You seem to have an appreciation and joie de vivre for all things. However, I wonder if you lived here in Quebec, whether you would hold so tenaciously to the idea that we’re all one big happy family at heart. I get very little sense in my daily interactions with québecois (as opposed to Quebeckers) that most of them feel any national pride or affiliation with Canada at all. I wouldn’t dare fly a Canadian flag from my home or car in my neighbourhood for fear of vandalism (or people mistaking my house for a post office), but a Quebec flag would be perfectly normal here.

    I wish more people held your view or Acajack’s position of thoughtful, enlightened self-interest. My Anglo-Canadian coworkers all think that another referendum is an impossibility and that those days are past. I think they have their heads in the sand and are practicing wishful thinking, but I am a stranger here and maybe can’t read the popular mood as well as them. I don’t think now is the time, but I do think that the right articulate charismatic leader with a strong separatist agenda could rise to power pretty fast.

    @Antonio: I agree in principal that people like me are welcome in Canada and would be in a free Quebec as well, but it is interesting to know that it immigrate to Canada via Quebec one must pass a test based on eligibility points.

    http://www.form.services.micc.gouv.qc.ca/epi/index.jsp?languageCode=fr

    One reason I am not a Canadian resident today (but not the only reason) is that my family does not pass this test for Quebec immigration eligibility. This is especially amusing in light of the fact that I have in my possession a personal letter from Paul Martin thanking me for helping to build the country by coming to live and work in Canada. Luckily they keep giving me visas, so I’ve managed alright so far! But indeed while I would not trade my US passport for a Canadian one, I would very much like to become a Canadian citizen one day — if they’d have me.

    For all its strangeness, I am filled with admiration for this place and for Montreal above all.

    Edward

    January 23, 2009 at 8:55 pm

  13. You all might be amused to take the test and see whether you’d be eligible to immigrate. If I lie and say that my French is perfect I manage to just qualify. Perhaps that is what I’ll have to do one day.

    Edward

    January 23, 2009 at 9:15 pm

  14. ABP:

    You’re full of it.

    The article doesn’t even suggest Crashed Ice might “bypass” Quebec. That’s just wishful thinking on your part. The course is already being built, for God’s sake. It’s actually taken place in Quebec City for three years in a row now, which is more times than it’s been held anywhere else.

    Of course, eventually, it will move on. And, of course, bitter old federalists will ignore that it stuck around here longer than anywhere else and try to find some way to blame its exit on the separatists.

    gcl

    January 23, 2009 at 9:57 pm

  15. “You’re full of it.

    The article doesn’t even suggest Crashed Ice might “bypass” Quebec. That’s just wishful thinking on your part. The course is already being built, for God’s sake. It’s actually taken place in Quebec City for three years in a row now, which is more times than it’s been held anywhere else”

    I really don’t care if they hold it in Iqualiut or Yellowknife….or any where else. The challenge of the name which is more of a “trade mark” for Red Bull is likely not going over very well with their marketing or executive people. Not likely sending a good message of openess and goodwill. For goodness sake, its a name of an event, one time only once a year.

    Just amazes me, however, how xenophobic some are about the language issue. I suppose when we have a french event elsewhere in Canada we should demand that it be in English…Petty thinking at the best.

    ABP

    ABP

    January 23, 2009 at 10:31 pm

  16. Apparently, you skipped over these parts of the article you provided a link to:

    “…in Italy Red Bull GmbH, an Austrian company, calls its Formula 1 team “Toro Rosso.”

    “The minister said without changing the name of the event, the company could take steps to underline, in French, that it takes place in Quebec.”

    I’m sure their marketing and executive people are positively scandalized over this. God knows if there’s one thing Europeans can’t relate to, it’s regional politics.

    gcl

    January 23, 2009 at 11:06 pm

  17. gcl

    i think you’re right. the marketing dept. probably has bigger problems to worry about!

    but mouvement montreal is focusing on important issues too!

    i think abp’s point is that if you don’t recognise the winter event or the city (which is the only world heritage site on the continent of north america) – you’re probably not firing on all two cylinders. or your powder’s not dry.

    has it occured to you that the minister’s response might be a distraction. that this really big issue of the battleground commission is about to be covered up?

    johnnyonline

    January 23, 2009 at 11:29 pm

  18. Bruce:

    You seem to think that being taught history and being instilled with a certain attitude are somehow fundamentally opposed. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

    “Canada of 2009 cannot be really said to ‘dominate’ Québec…”

    Well, yes, it can. Canada is a country, and Quebec is a province within that country. The federal government can very accurately be described as dominant over the provinces. Quebec may dominate politics in the sense of hogging the spotlight, but at the end of the day, the authority to put one’s foot down rests with Canada, not Quebec. That’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s our system of government.

    “War is a fundamental human mistake, always of tragic proportions […] The poignancy for me is the sorrow and folie of war, where ordinary men fall and die, and the universe of their families is smashed and overturned to satisfy the arrogant egos of kings and their ministers, far off in London and Paris, in this case.”

    I’ve never read anything as perfectly true and eloquently put on this forum, and only rarely anywhere else. I think it’s one of the only real messages we can get from looking at any military event (leaders and their locations change, of course). If that’s the message you get from the whole plains of Abraham thing, then you and I have at least that much in common. But it isn’t the message most Canadians get.

    gcl

    January 23, 2009 at 11:30 pm

  19. Here is the whole original article unabridged with all the comments etc as presented by the Canadian Press writer.

    http://www.680news.com/news/national/more.jsp?content=n012376A

    Then go to this one which is the promotion for the Event by the company:

    http://www.redbullcrashedice.ca/home

    Note that it is both in English and/or French and stipulates exactly where the event is going to be held..

    Decide for yourself as to the validity of the claim to change the name (Crashing ice) to suit the politically language correct in Quebec. Pay attention to the Red Bull peoples response and those of the mouvement’s accusations of “spitting on Quebec”..Give it a break. Mountains out of mole hills.

    Yaaawn.

    ABP

    ABP

    January 23, 2009 at 11:44 pm

  20. maybe if more people saw the re-enactment they would see it more like you bruce. and gcl.

    i’m still not going.

    johnnyonline

    January 23, 2009 at 11:54 pm

  21. ” I don’t think now is the time, but I do think that the right articulate charismatic leader with a strong separatist agenda could rise to power pretty fast.”

    Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing a few days ago while watching Barack Obama’s inauguration. A Québécois Obama and Canada as we know it could be done for. Which goes to show how absurd it is that Canada’s future potentially only hangs by a thread like this. Most of the selling jobs that we`ve seen in Canada over the years are about why sovereignty would be bad, rather than enforcing why Canada is good. This leaves the federalist option in a fairly vulnerable position, its success overly dependent upon relatively uninspiring leadership in the sovereignist camp, a situation that won’t necessarily last forever.

    Acajack

    January 24, 2009 at 12:12 am

  22. ”My Anglo-Canadian coworkers all think that another referendum is an impossibility and that those days are past. I think they have their heads in the sand and are practicing wishful thinking, but I am a stranger here and maybe can’t read the popular mood as well as them.”

    I agree with you Edward. Support for sovereignty may be below support for federalism, but the majority federalist support you see out there is quite soft.

    Your colleagues were probably saying the same thing about the death of the sovereignty movement around the late 80s, and look what happened between 1990 and 1995.

    Acajack

    January 24, 2009 at 12:16 am

  23. Wasn’t Levesque the Quebecois Obama? Or was he more of a Quebecois LBJ? Say what you will about sovereignist leaders, they are generally a hell of a lot more charismatic than Canada’s. For whatever reason, Canadians don’t seem to need charisma in their leaders. I’m not sure if it’s admirable or a sign of our apathy.

    RoryBellows

    January 24, 2009 at 12:20 am

  24. “Just amazes me, however, how xenophobic some are about the language issue. I suppose when we have a french event elsewhere in Canada we should demand that it be in English…Petty thinking at the best.”

    Is there a French event elsewhere in Canada that you can put your theory to the test? It has never been tried.

    It is a perfectly legitimate grievance to ask Red Bull to put French on its signs and programs. If there is any xenophobia, it is on the English-Canada and federalist side as they can’t seem to accept ANY and ANY attempt by Quebecers to value their language. The comments in the Montreal Gazette website like “Gestapo”, “nazis” etc puts the lie to Bruce’s assertion that English Canada values Quebec and supports Quebec’s attempt to promote the French fact. English Canada gets worked up over the littlest language issue in Quebec. They should get a life and leave Quebec alone.

    Antonio

    January 24, 2009 at 12:31 am

  25. if anyone is interested in leadership, statesmanship – i humbly refer you to the writing of american mark helprin
    Statesmanship and Its Betrayal 1998 :

    http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/dialogue/helprin.html

    johnnyonline

    January 24, 2009 at 12:41 am

  26. Fuck it.

    I’ve been trying to be nice for over a week now, and I’ve hated it. It’s just not who I am.

    Johnny:

    “the only world heritage site on the continent of north america”

    http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/ca

    http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/us

    It’s only taken me this long to expose you as the semi-literate nitwit you are because this is the first time you’ve ever even come close to making a statement of any actual substance.

    I have a feeling it will be a while before I address you again. Until then, enjoy. Your many desperate, pathetic cries for my attention have finally paid off.

    ABP:

    It’s Crashed Ice, not Crashing ice. If the name is so important to you, get it right. I read the new article you provided a link to.

    Here’s Red Bull’s response:

    *****
    “Because of the international scope of Red Bull Crashed Ice and worldwide interest, we have committed to keeping a consistent and recognizable name, the same since the event’s first edition in Austria in the year 2000,” spokesman Lubor Keliar said in an email.

    “However, we always strive to offer all event-related materials in the host country’s native languages. For example, Red Bull Crashed Ice presents marketing materials, media materials and the event website in both French and English.”
    *****

    Wow, you were right. He sounds pretty annoyed about the whole thing. They really must be ready to pack up and leave.

    Here’s what else was in that article:

    *******
    “Sam Hamad, the Quebec cabinet minister responsible for the provincial capital, is also calling for a name change that better reflects Quebec City’s francophone reality.

    He said Friday he will ask the company to add a French element to either the name of the event or the logo.

    “For sure, it would be better if they had a French name but what’s important to me is the event itself,” he said.

    “It’s about the impact of the event on the region, the impact for the tourists, it’s about the image of Quebec around the world.”
    *******

    Take that, separatists. Sam Hamad agrees with you that it would be preferable to increase the presence of French at the event, but he holds public office, and he’s being very diplomatic about it. So there.

    This was in the article too:

    ******
    Most of the 85,000 spectators and participants expected at the event are francophone and [Mouvement Montreal francais spokeswoman Sophie Beaupre] believes changing the name is a matter of respect.

    “I think it’s totally reasonable to ask and Red Bull has a duty to be sensitive to the population, to the public, to the participants of the event who are primarily francophone,” she said.”
    ********

    How can that dirty little separatist xenophobe have the audacity to even suggest something like that? Boy, she sure is making a mountain out of a molehill. I can see why you were so bored by whole thing. So bored, you wrote a post about it, then found two additional links to it and posted those, too. I know… I took the time to write a post, too. But I’m not the one who claimed I was bored by the whole thing.

    Look, arguing with you two is like shooting dead, retarded fish in a barrel with a shotgun. The splat amuses the hell out of me in a guilty kind of way, but I end up getting myself dirty, and it’s just too easy after awhile.

    I’m going to bed.

    gcl

    January 24, 2009 at 12:50 am

  27. yes. pleasant dreams.

    johnnyonline

    January 24, 2009 at 12:59 am

  28. @acj
    “Which goes to show how absurd it is that Canada’s future potentially only hangs by a thread like this. Most of the selling jobs that we`ve seen in Canada over the years are about why sovereignty would be bad, rather than enforcing why Canada is good.”

    And a lot of that comes out of Quebec..Even Sarkozy has bowed out of the sepration argument lately as a result of close associations with certain Quebecers…you know who. Those who view separation as bad for business.

    What hangs by a thread…Canada would continue quite well (actually likely better off) without Quebec according to many…Some in Quebec seem to feel this way as well for a sovereign nation of Quebec. Doom and gloom, I don’t think so..

    At least some ridiculous arguments about things two and a half centuries ago would be put on the shelf…and the language debate would be over. As I have said before French in Quebec and English in Canada. This which at present is reality. Nothing has changed in several decades and likely won’t any time soon. Bilingual nation, you know full well this is pure fantasy.

    Wouldn’t it be a better climate for everyone? Think of it..Quebec could have all the social programs and control over linguistics it dsires. Perfect!!! The ROC would be free of the French influence which would save millions in the coming tough economic times. Win /Win situation for both sides when you think about it.

    Honest negotiation could begin rather than the current status of negotiation between “supposed” family members which clouds clear and concise thinking.

    What you think ACJ..now that you have repatrioted to the nation state. Have you any arguments against total and complete separate Quebec sovereingty.????

    ABP

    ABP

    January 24, 2009 at 1:06 am

  29. “Look, arguing with you two is like shooting dead, retarded fish in a barrel with a shotgun. The splat amuses the hell out of me in a guilty kind of way, but I end up getting myself dirty, and it’s just too easy after awhile.

    I’m going to bed”

    Whatever, you should have went to bed earlier..Better for you disposition today… Why is it you Quebecers cant stand one bit of criticism…. Must be your inherent insecurity.

    Shotgun is not a good thing to shoot fish in a barrel…check it out before you engage in this activity.

    ABP

    ABP

    January 24, 2009 at 1:13 am

  30. gcl,
    if you’re still awake.
    thank you for that.

    je vous remercie, profondement.

    as i now stand kerrecked i know now what i should have said was –
    “In 1985, Québec became the first city on the continent to be placed on the World Heritage List of UNESCO”

    forgive me.

    johnnyonline

    January 24, 2009 at 1:16 am


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