AngryFrenchGuy

About French Music at the Bell Center

with 252 comments

Wordy Word

My friend Vince is one of those prototypical couch jocks who’s whole lives revolve around NFL football, hockey playoffs and three-day NHL ’08 marathons.  Amazingly, Vince also finds time to get some work done between his ultra-realistic and complex online baseball league simulations. He’s a very successful disc jockey who’s been rocking dancefloors since way before he was legally allowed to even be in the clubs.

For the last three years Vince has also been working as the DJ at the Bell Center during the Canadien’s hockey games.  Up there on the gallery with the best seat in the house for every single home game and 25 000 cheering Habs fans below, Vince is as close to heaven as he’ll ever be if lust, gluttony and sloth are indeed deadly sins…

Since last May, however, some bad vibes have been drifting up to his happy place.  Nothing major.  Just a very persistent controversy about the amount of French and Québec music that is being played at the Bell Center.

The debate started with an online petition by publisher Michel Brûlé demanding that the Bell Center respect the CRTC requirements imposed on French commercial radio stations and play at least 65% of French music.

The Bell Center is a private business, not a broadcaster and that idea got very little support.  The debate about the amount of French music and local artists played at the Bell Center, however, lived on and today, just like Bob Gainey, Carbo and the guys on the ice,  Vince is discovering the joy of hearing people second guessing how he does his job on TV and in the papers.

Vince is very lucky to have his job, but he absolutely deserves it.  Before he was drafted by the Canadiens, he was the Expo’s DJ at the Olympic stadium.  Not many people know this, but before hockey games on Saturday nights Vince is at the Université de Montréal stadium playing music for the college football team Les Carabins.  He doesn’t need the money.  They can’t afford him anyway.  Vince is just really intense about sports and music.

Ever since Vince first appeared at our school in the fourth grade with his strange and cool breakdance LPs under his arm, it’s always been about the music, and the music could only be about what we were, French-speaking kids from this place called Québec.  Singing in English or changing your accent made you a poser and earned you our sincere contempt.

Vince led the way for the rest of us white kids into the then-scary world of Rap or deep into his dad’s collection of old Offenbach, Harmonium and Charlebois records.  He can say he’s battled Kool Rock of the first ever Québec Rap crew Mouvement Rap Francophone (coolest band logo in Québec music history) way back when you and your dad wouldn’t even acknowledge Hip Hop as music yet.  Fifteen years before the Cowboy Fringants, Vince played the drums for for Trad Rock band les Pères Verts, and wrote the lyrics for their nationalist anthem Racines (Roots).

Later, with his band Phénomen, Vince recorded two crazy eclectic albums, one of which was nominated as best Hip Hop album at the Gala de l’Adisq, the Québec equivalent of the Grammy’s.

Speaking of the Gala de l’Adisq, this year’s edition was held last sunday at, precisely, the Bell Center and I watched the gala with Vince at his house. He’s not going to like me telling you this, but when Luc Plamondon payed homage to Québec’s most successful artist ever, recalling Céline Dion’s rise from Charlemagne to worldwide stardom, her sincere loyalty to the Québec public and how she never stopped recording in French, Vince cried.

A few minutes later another legend, Claude Dubois (the guy the CBC edited out of it’s broadcast of the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame along with all the other francophones artists) sang Si Dieu Existe.  Vince cried again.

I very seriously doubt that in it’s 100 year history the Montreal Canadien has ever had an employee who is more passionate about Québec music and culture.

The average hockey fan watching the game on TV, however, doesn’t actually hear much of the music played at the arena.  The “music” during the game is really just a quick succession of 5 and 10 second snippets: “We will, we will, Rock You!”,  hand claps, an organ riff and face off.  If you listen to any sports event from anywhere in the world, you will quickly notice there is a very small cannon everyone seems to be working with: Gary Glitter’s Rock and Roll part two, I Love Rock and Roll by Joan Jett and… that’s about it.

Vince makes it a point of playing Québec artists that he likes during intermissions, when he actually gets to play the whole song.  The TV viewing crowd, sadly, is watching beer commercials or game “analysis”.  Montreal already does have it’s hometown classic sports anthems, although they are getting a bit old: Illégal by Corbeau when the other team makes a nasty hit and Éric Lapointe’s Les Boys or Rocket (on est tous des Maurices Richards).  In fact, I seriously wonder if you’ll hear as much properly ‘local’ music at any other NHL’s team home games…

Smarter artists, Loco Locass to name one, understood this and instead of calling for legislation or quotas, went to work and did their jobs and recorded a hockey song for Vince. (Btw, les Locos, Vince aimerait bien avoir un .wav…)

And let’s hope they keep doing it and keep putting out high impact rocking anthems Vince can play during Hockey games.

If they can come up with the beats and the chants, they’ve got a very good friend up there.

Written by angryfrenchguy

November 16, 2008 at 7:07 pm

252 Responses

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  1. They would only be one in an politically independant Quebec.

    Katmandoo

    November 23, 2008 at 4:51 pm

  2. “Anglos of Quebec ARE NOT a minority”

    Now that is very interesting. If they are not a minority, then what are they? They certainly are not the majority…

    The implicit assumption in your argument is that Francophones’s collective rights are in danger in N America. Now I do not understand what you mean by this, but if Quebec became independent, then this danger would no longer exist I presume. Would then the ROC be “justified” in reducing the rights it currently provides to Francos in the ROC?

    AM

    November 23, 2008 at 5:44 pm

  3. AM:
    “Would then the ROC be “justified” in reducing the rights it currently provides to Francos in the ROC”

    ROC can do anything it wants; it’s not the concern of an idenpendant Quebec.

    “The implicit assumption in your argument is that Francophones’s collective rights are in danger in N America. Now I do not understand what you mean by this”

    Not exactly the collective rights; the survival of their community and identity.

    “If they are not a minority, then what are they? They certainly are not the majority”

    As long as there is a country called Canada of which Quebec is only a part, Anglophones of Canada are a majority.

    Canada cannot give Quebec the status of an indenpendant country when it suits one.

    Katmandoo

    November 23, 2008 at 5:52 pm

  4. “Who’s talking “land grab”? That would be partition, which I’m not talking about.
    I’m talking about having a specifically defined geographic area within the province of Quebec in which Bill 101 wouldn’t apply.
    Why would you have objections to that?”

    It would basically amount to partition anyway.

    Besides, the area you describe is home to almost 2 million francophones (one third of the francophone population of Quebec), who are almost three times as numerous as the anglophones in the same zone.

    Why would the Quebec government (or these francophones themselves) accept having their language subjugated even more than it already is, in an area where they form three quarters of the population?

    Don’t the hundreds of thousands of francophones there count for something? I know that in a lot of peoples’ eyes here anglos *count* more than francos (as evidenced by numerous comments on francos outside Quebec), but at some point it starts to get ridiculous, people.

    People should examine stuff like this closely and see what it is truly all about.

    Like the fairly recent demerger of many municipalities on the western part of Montreal Island, it is all about extracting anglos from the democratic and political power of the francophone majority.

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 9:37 am

  5. “I like Poutine, don’t you? Isn’t it a very savored and much enjoyed food in Quebec? So then equating Quebec culture to something that is enjoyed is a bad thing ?? ;)”

    Not necessarily, however equating the entire Quebec culture to poutine as you did is like saying that (English-)Canada’s sole contribution to global cuisine is Tim Horton’s.

    How do you suppose people would react if I said something like that?

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 9:41 am

  6. “ABP ““Ad Mare usque ad Mare”
    J’s desole…ne comprender pas ca vous encrivez.
    ABP
    Come on ABP that means “From sea to sea”
    That the canadian moto….
    What a canadian you are….LOL”

    Not to pick on ABP (although he can dish it out, so he can take a little as well), but I found that in my discussions over the years on the Quebec-Canada issue that many intelligent people in the ROC don’t really know that much about the country they defend so passionately.

    Now, ABP is not necessarily a “Canadian patriot” strictu sensu because he believes in independence for Quebec (or at least he says he does), however he does seem quite attached to the part of the country that would be the successor state of a Canada-minus-Quebec. Basically, he is a ROC patriot, of which there are many others in Canada, although most don’t realize that that’s what they are and think their identity applies to all of Canada.

    In any event, I’ve had many discussions and arguments with these ROC patriots and when you drop historical or institutional references to Canadian icons (like a mare usque ad mare), it’s surprising how many of them are totally clueless. I wonder if it isn’t all that American pop culture, especially TV. A mare usque ad mare wasn’t covered by Schoolhouse Rock on ABC, as far as I can recall.

    Interestingly enough, most of these references that are often lost on relatively learned Canadian patriots from the ROC are known to learned Québécois. (For example, midnightjack probably pulled off the top of his head the motto of the country he wants to separate from. Betcha he didn’t have to look it up.)

    It’s astonishing how many people in the ROC really think that the IRS collects their taxes, that the proper way to address a judge in a Canadian court is “your honour” (proper form is “your worship”, think they will really get the Miranda warning (“you have the right to remain silent…) if stopped by the RCMP, etc.

    I once had an intense political discussion with someone from Ontario who has two master’s degrees and who told me that Quebecers wouldn’t be getting “green cards” to work in Canada after independence. I tried to explain that Canada didn’t issue green cards anyway but she was persistent that the Canadian government issued green cards as work permits. She probably still thinks so to this very day.

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 9:57 am

  7. “AM: Now that is very interesting. If they are not a minority, then what are they? They certainly are not the majority…”

    Although some federal Canadian law and practices may suggest otherwise, English-speaking Canadians (even those living in Quebec) cannot really be considered a minority. Even the United Nations Human Rights Committee said so, when asked in 1993 by some Anglo-Quebecers to examine Quebec’s language laws.

    For English speakers in Quebec to be considered a minority, Quebec would have to be an independent country, and I don’t really think there is any appetite to go there, try it out, and see if it would be better.

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 10:03 am

  8. “RB, why do you think ROC Francophones would move to an independent Quebec in large numbers?”

    I don’t think there would be a massive exodus of francos from the ROC, and certainly nowhere near as large of the movement of anglos out of Quebec, but there would be some movement. Note that there would also be some Québécois francophones who would move to the ROC because they have a stronger attachment to Canada than to Quebec. Not many of course, but there would be some.

    Population movements would depend a lot on the factors Rory mentioned. Would the newly independent Quebec be cool with anglos or crack down on them? Probably it would be cool, but to some people it wouldn’t matter either way: just the idea of no longer being in Canada and being subject to the democratic wishes of the francophone majority for every single thing would be enough to make them move, regardless of the rights accorded to them by Quebec. The insurance policy for Anglo-Quebecers which is the overarching, anglo-dominated Canadian government would be gone.

    Regarding francophones outside Quebec, most of them are so used to having to live their lives in English (save for a few exceptions) that most wouldn’t move to Quebec for all the tea in China. Their provincial governments and the new federal government of the ROC would have to crack down on them pretty hard in order for a large contingent to move to Quebec. And even then, I’m not sure that many would budge.

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 10:19 am

  9. “If I am understand this argument correctly, then you are saying that Francophones’ collective rights are recognized through loi 101, but then that Anglos’ collective rights are not?”

    The whole question of whose collective rights take precedence was discussed in this thread: https://angryfrenchguy.com/2008/10/12/why-you-should-vote-bloc-and-why-i-will-not/

    A discussion in which you took part, AM.

    Don’t remember the references to Russians in the Baltic countries?

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 10:23 am

  10. “How do you suppose people would react if I said something like that?”

    ;);)

    ABP

    ABP

    November 24, 2008 at 11:09 am

  11. @ACJ
    “Not to pick on ABP (although he can dish it out, so he can take a little as well),”

    Sure thing, broad shoulders you know :)

    “independence for Quebec (or at least he says he does), however he does seem quite attached to the part of the country that would be the successor state of a Canada-minus-Quebec”

    I don’t totally agree or disagree with it, but I do think it would put to rest the issues the continued french/english thing which is wasting a lot of time and money. Successor, that would be Canada I believe or has Quebec copyrighted the name? It’s very interesting to see a great many people commenting that Canada would be just another state of the US without Quebec. A bit presumptious and as this indicates to me, at least, that these people feel English Canada has no culture or history of their own. It’s there, but for the most part we don’t wave the flag as much as those in Quebec.

    “in any event, I’ve had many discussions and arguments with these ROC patriots ”

    You mean Canadian Patriots. Canada without Quebec would still be Canada, correct.

    “Interestingly enough, most of these references that are often lost on relatively learned Canadian patriots from the ROC are known to learned Québécois.”

    Must be that superior Quebecois culture and intellect, heh.

    “It’s astonishing how many people in the ROC really think that the IRS collects their taxes, that the proper way to address a judge in a Canadian court is “your honour” (proper form is “your worship”, think they will really get the Miranda warning (“you have the right to remain silent…) if stopped by the RCMP, etc.”

    You ask anyone in Quebec the same questions. Could be that 40% of them wouldn’t know about the tax thing…how do you address a judge in Quebec anyways?

    ABP

    ABP

    November 24, 2008 at 12:51 pm

  12. “Interestingly enough, most of these references that are often lost on relatively learned Canadian patriots from the ROC are known to learned Québécois.”
    ABP: “Must be that superior Quebecois culture and intellect, heh.”

    Nah, people in the ROC are just as cultured and intellectual as people anywhere else. It’s just that most of the stuff that a lot of people in the ROC know is from the U.S. rather than from Canada.

    Don’t confuse acculturation with intelligence or sophistication.

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 1:17 pm

  13. “The whole question of whose collective rights take precedence was discussed in this thread: https://angryfrenchguy.com/2008/10/12/why-you-should-vote-bloc-and-why-i-will-not/

    A discussion in which you took part, AM.

    Don’t remember the references to Russians in the Baltic countries?”

    Yes, and I still find my two questions without satisfying answers (references to desperate tactics by angryphones do not count):
    -if it is the danger of “extinction” that determines how much “collective rights” a group should enjoy, then what about all the Natives in Quebec and North America for that matter?
    -I presume with an independent Quebec, the question of survival of French and Francophones would be settled. Should then Francophones in the ROC have fewer collective rights?

    AM

    November 24, 2008 at 1:20 pm

  14. “It’s very interesting to see a great many people commenting that Canada would be just another state of the US without Quebec. A bit presumptious and as this indicates to me, at least, that these people feel English Canada has no culture or history of their own.”

    I, for one, am not saying that they do not exist. I am just saying that they don’t rate very high on the interest scale for most people in the ROC. Which is why for example, in most video stores in the ROC, (English-) Canadian movies, when they have them, are usually found in the “foreign” section. Or why people in the ROC media always seem to refer to the Juno Awards as “Canada’s Grammys”, or the Grey Cup as “Canada’s Super Bowl”. Why should they have to reference something in the U.S. when talking about these events to a Canadian audience?

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 1:27 pm

  15. “Would the newly independent Quebec be cool with anglos or crack down on them? Probably it would be cool, but to some people it wouldn’t matter either way: just the idea of no longer being in Canada and being subject to the democratic wishes of the francophone majority for every single thing would be enough to make them move, regardless of the rights accorded to them by Quebec.”

    I have a feeling many of these Anglos have left. I just think those who really hate the idea of living in a French environment have probably left over the past 20-30 years.

    AM

    November 24, 2008 at 1:36 pm

  16. AM:

    I note here that you have now moved from the collective rights of Quebec’s anglo community to the collective rights of aboriginal communities. Two totally different matters.

    But OK, I’ll play along.

    I have always said here (on several occasions) that Mohawk, Innu, Huron or any other aboriginal language *bests* or *trumps* French on a legitimacy scale in the Quebec context. I applauded Nunavut’s decision to adopt a language law to protect Inuktitut and would be totally supportive of similar measures in aboriginal communities located in Quebec. In fact, for places where the local language is still very dynamic (Cree near James Bay, Inuktitut in the far north, Innu on the North Shore), I would even strongly encourage local leaders to take such measures. Of course, whether or not it happens is really up to them and none of my business really.

    Regarding francophones outside Quebec, perhaps you could tell me what your impression is of the rights they have at the moment before we discuss if they could be scaled back post-independence.

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 1:40 pm

  17. « I have a feeling many of these Anglos have left. I just think those who really hate the idea of living in a French environment have probably left over the past 20-30 years.”

    There is a lot of truth to this, for sure. But don’t underestimate the “insurance policy” that Canada represents for a lot of people in Quebec. Think of them potentially having to carry a Quebec passport, for example.

    Don’t forget as well that the near-win for the sovereignists in 1995 sent much of the anglo community into a tizzy. In my street most of the anglo families left (mostly for Ontario, or for other provinces or the U.S.) between 1995 and 1998. And yet the Non side won! New anglo families have only started reappearing in my neighbourhood in the past few years or so.

    So fear related to a close call is more than enough to spark a whole bunch of moves out of Quebec. I can only imagine what would happen if the Oui side won.

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 1:52 pm

  18. Acajack,

    I am only speaking theoretically here. All I am asking is whether the presence of a Francophone country would reduce the “collective rights” of Francophones outside of Quebec given Katmandoo’s premise that it is the question of “survival” which determines these things.

    Look, I think Francophones should have the same rights as Anglos in Quebec. I would gladly go along with even more rights for Francos in the ROC. But the thing is, if Quebec separates, given that the Franco population as a % of Canada’s population will decrease significantly, Canada might be inclined to scale back the rights and services it provides to Francos. I think that would be sad and it’s something I would worry about.

    Now, from the tone of your question, I am implying that you believe Francos in the ROC have fewer rights than Anglos here. Am I right?

    AM

    November 24, 2008 at 2:01 pm

  19. “There is a lot of truth to this, for sure. But don’t underestimate the “insurance policy” that Canada represents for a lot of people in Quebec. Think of them potentially having to carry a Quebec passport, for example.

    The passport issue is an interesting one for me. But presumably you would be able to keep your Canadian passport even you continued to reside in an indep Quebec, just like you are able to if you emigrate anywhere else. Your “insurance policy” would therefore remain intact.

    I think what Canada might have to do is stop allowing double citizenship. Having the whole of the Quebec population holding Canadian passports might put a strain on its social services. It would be interesting to see if this happens and how many people would then choose Quebec vs. Canadian citizenship.

    AM

    November 24, 2008 at 2:08 pm

  20. “Now, from the tone of your question, I am implying that you believe Francos in the ROC have fewer rights than Anglos here. Am I right?”

    Except for the right to post a commercial sign only in the minority language, yes I do think that anglos in Quebec have more rights than francos in the ROC.

    I believe we are talking about government here, but life isn’t only about dealing with the government. In fact, how often do most people deal with a government entity? Most everyday human contacts are massively non-governmental I’d say.

    And this is where Anglo-Quebec has a big advantage.

    Corporate Canada generally serves Anglo-Quebec in English with almost flawless efficiency, whereas for francophones Corporate Canada tends to switch to English-only as soon as you cross the Ottawa River.

    There is also the relatively high level of bilingualism among francophone Québécois that Anglo-Quebecers can and do rely upon for English service. Few anglos in the ROC are bilingual, so few of them can serve local francophones in French.

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 2:26 pm

  21. “The passport issue is an interesting one for me. But presumably you would be able to keep your Canadian passport even you continued to reside in an indep Quebec, just like you are able to if you emigrate anywhere else. Your “insurance policy” would therefore remain intact.
    I think what Canada might have to do is stop allowing double citizenship. Having the whole of the Quebec population holding Canadian passports might put a strain on its social services. It would be interesting to see if this happens and how many people would then choose Quebec vs. Canadian citizenship.”

    Quite the dilemma I agree. I wonder if Canada could establish a requirement to reside in a province of Canada in order to receive social services (and most of them are provincially-run anyway). There are many people living abroad who have Canadian passports but who don’t have an Ontario health card or a Quebec Carte-soleil, for example. They may have had one at some point, but if it is expired they’d have to reapply for one in the province in which they are going to take up Canadian residency again.

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 2:29 pm

  22. “There are many people living abroad who have Canadian passports but who don’t have an Ontario health card or a Quebec Carte-soleil, for example. They may have had one at some point, but if it is expired they’d have to reapply for one in the province in which they are going to take up Canadian residency again.”

    I just think there is the scope for a lot of fraud in this. But who knows, the two countries might cooperate well on this. I just remember a few ago, there was this big thing in Nova Scotia or New Brunswick (not sure which one) about the province having like 200,000 health insurance cards than the population because so many Americans were able to somehow get them. I presume it would be worse between Canada and Quebec.

    AM

    November 24, 2008 at 2:49 pm

  23. “I believe we are talking about government here, but life isn’t only about dealing with the government. In fact, how often do most people deal with a government entity? Most everyday human contacts are massively non-governmental I’d say.”

    For me, education is a very big thing, which is daily “contact” with the government.

    As to contact between private citizens and between private citizens and businesses, there is only so much any government can do. You cannot force 24 million people to learn a language, it is not going to happen unless they really need that language.

    AM

    November 24, 2008 at 2:53 pm

  24. “For me, education is a very big thing, which is daily “contact” with the government.”

    Well, not everyone is in the school system and many immigrants arrive as adults and never go through the schools of their adopted country, but I do see your point. They are a key element of a community’s ability to regenerate itself.

    In the cases of established Anglo-Quebecers and established ROC francos, I’d say at the elementary and secondary levels the systems are pretty equivalent. Of course, there is the question of who gets into the minority schools but I’ve never believed in the God-given right to have immigrants streamed into a minority’s schools to make up for departures or assimilateds. The main purpose of minority schools is so that the people who are there can carry on the identity of the said minority community. This is the main focus of ROC francophones: they’re too busy trying to ensure that people named Tremblay and Gagnon remain francophones to pay attention to whether people named Wong or Hossein ever will.

    Granted, some newcomers may come into minority schools, but a situation like that in Montreal in the 60s and 70s where the vast majority of immigrant kids were in English schools can only be seen as an aberration that at some point people would put a stop to.

    Note that on access to minority schools, the legal framework in Ontario is quite similar to Quebec’s. Generally speaking only people who are already francophones can get into Franco-Ontarian schools. The big difference is that Ontario has devolved the application of these provisions to the school boards, whereas in Quebec the authority is at the provincial level.

    How strictly the rules are applied in Ontario depends on the school board. In some, non-francophones are generally kept out of French schools because the feeling is that their presence in too large numbers will make the little Franco-Ontarians all speak only English in the schoolyard. In other areas of Ontario, generally in places where the local francophone population is low, the doors are wide open because the school boards want to shore up their pupil numbers and get more funding. In these areas, a lot of anglo (and some immigrant) families send their kids to francophone schools and use them as “super French immersion” schools.

    Of course, the % of immigrant kids going to French schools in the ROC is miniscule, as evidenced by the fact that later on when they become adults, kids of immigrants to the ROC who choose between English and French as their “Canadian” language choose English something like 99.6% of the time.

    I suspect that if the numbers were different (ie more similar to the current 50-50 French-English split in immigrant language transfers in Quebec), that a province like Ontario might not be so laissez-faire on the school choice front and might quickly pull the issue back from the school boards.

    All of this only applies to elementary and secondary schooling. On the post-secondary front, there is a huge disparity in educational choices between Anglo-Quebecers and ROC francophones.

    Acajack

    November 24, 2008 at 4:50 pm

  25. Thanks guys , now i know what to play &^%$#@@#$%^&

    the DJ

    November 24, 2008 at 5:35 pm

  26. I should play songs from that wonderfull french quebec rockband named LES BREASTFEEDERS

    midnightjack

    November 24, 2008 at 5:56 pm

  27. It is often the case, we start talking about the article, and then we forget and talk about everything else. Sorry for this, DJ

    midnightjack

    November 24, 2008 at 5:59 pm

  28. LES BREATFEEDERS, The name is englih, but they sing in french

    midnightjack

    November 24, 2008 at 6:01 pm

  29. midnightjack,
    you have to vote in AFG pool up this page.

    I voted already for Les Breasfeeders. We are two. :-)

    Katmandoo

    November 24, 2008 at 6:28 pm

  30. DJ–how about the chorus of “Maurice au bistro” every time someone gets a 2 minute minor penalty? “Attends moi deux minutes, faut que j’aille tirer une…”

    Apropos?

    littlerob

    November 25, 2008 at 4:04 pm


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