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	<title>Comments on: Québec Separatists Save St.Jean Baptist Show From Ultra-Nationalists</title>
	<atom:link href="http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/</link>
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		<title>By: Raman</title>
		<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/comment-page-1/#comment-8632</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Raman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://angryfrenchguy.com/?p=1512#comment-8632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zukQc3DPAvs

Artists from L&#039;Autre St-Jean speak.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice !<br />
<span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/zukQc3DPAvs/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
<p>Artists from L&#8217;Autre St-Jean speak.</p>
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		<title>By: Acajack</title>
		<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/comment-page-1/#comment-8622</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Acajack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://angryfrenchguy.com/?p=1512#comment-8622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Obviously written by someone who has never seen a modern-day St-Jean-Baptiste celebration in his entire life...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously written by someone who has never seen a modern-day St-Jean-Baptiste celebration in his entire life&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jules</title>
		<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/comment-page-1/#comment-8620</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jules]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://angryfrenchguy.com/?p=1512#comment-8620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First off, as someone not from here I find this festival offensive at best.  It is a celebration of racial purity because it is simply not about francophone culture only, it is about those from France, the Quebeboic of French origin and this is a racial issue. (I use the word racial to stand in for ethnic if you will since since Darwin we know that race amongst humans is a fiction.)  Additionally, there is a huge lack of understanding this situation in its entireity.  People write here of the Gazette being biased, but objectively speaking I find that paper tries to tiptoe around any coherent discussion of this issue since before and after the band issue came up, the anglophone community has experienced  what it feels to be discrimination; yet very little is mentioned in the media about this.  As someone who saw the events of Clichy S Bois unfold a few years back, I can only say that such resentment for the dominant culture will not end well for the ruling francophones. The fact is that most every immigrant and non-francophone, not to mention the younger generations of francophones here, are not included by this festival and find its very core repugnant to their humanity.  And as an outsider to this culture, I can only agree with them.

Quebec needs to enter the 21st century, realize that the French are no longer oppressed and try to understand that there is a larg community that would rather have the 24th of June as a day of coming together and being pushed (as usual) apart.  It seems clear to me that this festival needs to be put on a shelf and a newer kind of festival to celebrate Quebec&#039;s diversity to include the indigenous and gypsy populations, to include the English and French, as well as the immigrants from all over the world.  The way forward in this world is to create dialogue not rifts and from all I am reading here is reflective of a culture of blaming everything on a history that is not immediately relevant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, as someone not from here I find this festival offensive at best.  It is a celebration of racial purity because it is simply not about francophone culture only, it is about those from France, the Quebeboic of French origin and this is a racial issue. (I use the word racial to stand in for ethnic if you will since since Darwin we know that race amongst humans is a fiction.)  Additionally, there is a huge lack of understanding this situation in its entireity.  People write here of the Gazette being biased, but objectively speaking I find that paper tries to tiptoe around any coherent discussion of this issue since before and after the band issue came up, the anglophone community has experienced  what it feels to be discrimination; yet very little is mentioned in the media about this.  As someone who saw the events of Clichy S Bois unfold a few years back, I can only say that such resentment for the dominant culture will not end well for the ruling francophones. The fact is that most every immigrant and non-francophone, not to mention the younger generations of francophones here, are not included by this festival and find its very core repugnant to their humanity.  And as an outsider to this culture, I can only agree with them.</p>
<p>Quebec needs to enter the 21st century, realize that the French are no longer oppressed and try to understand that there is a larg community that would rather have the 24th of June as a day of coming together and being pushed (as usual) apart.  It seems clear to me that this festival needs to be put on a shelf and a newer kind of festival to celebrate Quebec&#8217;s diversity to include the indigenous and gypsy populations, to include the English and French, as well as the immigrants from all over the world.  The way forward in this world is to create dialogue not rifts and from all I am reading here is reflective of a culture of blaming everything on a history that is not immediately relevant.</p>
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		<title>By: PAAM</title>
		<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/comment-page-1/#comment-8617</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PAAM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 03:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://angryfrenchguy.com/?p=1512#comment-8617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The guy I heard on th radio was pathetically bad - my Ontario boen mother speaks better french and she didn&#039;t learn french until in her 20s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The guy I heard on th radio was pathetically bad &#8211; my Ontario boen mother speaks better french and she didn&#8217;t learn french until in her 20s.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/comment-page-1/#comment-8616</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://angryfrenchguy.com/?p=1512#comment-8616</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s an interesting item written about the first SJBD event *ever* held in Westmount, which was only 10 years ago.  Took Westmount only 165 years then to join the party.  (And to think people accuse WM of being refractory to the French fact...)  Most of the initial turnout for it was described as rubberneckers who couldn&#039;t believe it and it apparently had about the novelty value of a UFO landing:

http://fanset8.blogspot.com/2008/06/bridging-solitudes.html

The event apparently symbolizes the &quot;changing face of the city&quot;, i.e. the fact that Westmount&#039;s *more francophone* now (over 20% I think) which would explain where the impetus came for it in the first place.  It&#039;s sponsored by the same organization which sponsors and coordinates Fête Nationale events elsewhere in Montreal and the province, the Mouvement National des Québécois:  http://www.fetenationale.qc.ca/les-grandes-celebrations/montreal.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an interesting item written about the first SJBD event *ever* held in Westmount, which was only 10 years ago.  Took Westmount only 165 years then to join the party.  (And to think people accuse WM of being refractory to the French fact&#8230;)  Most of the initial turnout for it was described as rubberneckers who couldn&#8217;t believe it and it apparently had about the novelty value of a UFO landing:</p>
<p><a href="http://fanset8.blogspot.com/2008/06/bridging-solitudes.html" rel="nofollow">http://fanset8.blogspot.com/2008/06/bridging-solitudes.html</a></p>
<p>The event apparently symbolizes the &#8220;changing face of the city&#8221;, i.e. the fact that Westmount&#8217;s *more francophone* now (over 20% I think) which would explain where the impetus came for it in the first place.  It&#8217;s sponsored by the same organization which sponsors and coordinates Fête Nationale events elsewhere in Montreal and the province, the Mouvement National des Québécois:  <a href="http://www.fetenationale.qc.ca/les-grandes-celebrations/montreal.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fetenationale.qc.ca/les-grandes-celebrations/montreal.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: fred</title>
		<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/comment-page-1/#comment-8615</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fred]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://angryfrenchguy.com/?p=1512#comment-8615</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My point was solely about references to ethnic nationalism in mainstream political discourse (i.e. newspapers, etc). Hence, the relevant definition is the one that is in use there. I think you&#039;ll find that most people would give you the same definition as Wikipedia if you were to ask them to define &quot;ethnic nationalism&quot;. And you can&#039;t possibly ignore how negatively connoted that term is. I mean just type, say, &quot;ethnic civic nationalism site:thestar.com&quot; or any other newspaper of your choice in google and see how many *positive* mentions of ethnic nationalism you see...

Now, if you insist on using your definition, can you please tell me a specific example of nationalism that isn&#039;t ethnic? Canadian nationalism certainly wouldn&#039;t work, since Canada explicitly promotes English and French as official languages and all public services are only available in those languages. Not to mention hockey as a &quot;national sport&quot; and other cultural features common to Canadian nationalism.

And sure, &quot;racism&quot; was perhaps not right term, but I don&#039;t know of a word X such that X is to ethnicity as racism is to race. Since X is morally equivalent to racism, I don&#039;t think confusing the two is a huge problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point was solely about references to ethnic nationalism in mainstream political discourse (i.e. newspapers, etc). Hence, the relevant definition is the one that is in use there. I think you&#8217;ll find that most people would give you the same definition as Wikipedia if you were to ask them to define &#8220;ethnic nationalism&#8221;. And you can&#8217;t possibly ignore how negatively connoted that term is. I mean just type, say, &#8220;ethnic civic nationalism site:thestar.com&#8221; or any other newspaper of your choice in google and see how many *positive* mentions of ethnic nationalism you see&#8230;</p>
<p>Now, if you insist on using your definition, can you please tell me a specific example of nationalism that isn&#8217;t ethnic? Canadian nationalism certainly wouldn&#8217;t work, since Canada explicitly promotes English and French as official languages and all public services are only available in those languages. Not to mention hockey as a &#8220;national sport&#8221; and other cultural features common to Canadian nationalism.</p>
<p>And sure, &#8220;racism&#8221; was perhaps not right term, but I don&#8217;t know of a word X such that X is to ethnicity as racism is to race. Since X is morally equivalent to racism, I don&#8217;t think confusing the two is a huge problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/comment-page-1/#comment-8614</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 00:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://angryfrenchguy.com/?p=1512#comment-8614</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;&#039;The only thing I found embarrassing was how little french the guy from one of the bands spoke – I mean come on! I didn’t grow up on the West Island so the anglos I know are all very bilingual, married to francophone etc.&#039;&#039;

I`ve heard conflicting reports on this. On the one hand I heard in the media (francophone) that the band members happen to be anglo but speak French with typical Quebec accents. Whereas another report I heard (also from francophone media) said the guy could barely speak French to save his life.

Never actually heard an interview with any of the band members though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221;The only thing I found embarrassing was how little french the guy from one of the bands spoke – I mean come on! I didn’t grow up on the West Island so the anglos I know are all very bilingual, married to francophone etc.&#8221;</p>
<p>I`ve heard conflicting reports on this. On the one hand I heard in the media (francophone) that the band members happen to be anglo but speak French with typical Quebec accents. Whereas another report I heard (also from francophone media) said the guy could barely speak French to save his life.</p>
<p>Never actually heard an interview with any of the band members though.</p>
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		<title>By: ABP</title>
		<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/comment-page-1/#comment-8613</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ABP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://angryfrenchguy.com/?p=1512#comment-8613</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pour Quois Pas, ACJ...another excuse for a party and a day off! 

Of course on Canada day, in Quebec, many people move on.  Very interesting!  All those couches and beds deposited on the streets.  What memories must be discarded on this day  :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pour Quois Pas, ACJ&#8230;another excuse for a party and a day off! </p>
<p>Of course on Canada day, in Quebec, many people move on.  Very interesting!  All those couches and beds deposited on the streets.  What memories must be discarded on this day  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Acajack</title>
		<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/comment-page-1/#comment-8612</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Acajack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://angryfrenchguy.com/?p=1512#comment-8612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think a more historically correct analogy would be French Canadians celebrating Victoria Day.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a more historically correct analogy would be French Canadians celebrating Victoria Day.</p>
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		<title>By: ABP</title>
		<link>http://angryfrenchguy.com/2009/06/17/quebec-separatist-save-st-jean-baptist-show-from-ultra-nationalists/comment-page-1/#comment-8611</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ABP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://angryfrenchguy.com/?p=1512#comment-8611</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whats wrong with getting drunk and partying.  Provides an excuse to do so for all. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whats wrong with getting drunk and partying.  Provides an excuse to do so for all. :)</p>
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